Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Legal and Constitutional Affairs
Issue 18 - Evidence, June 22, 2000
OTTAWA, Thursday, June 22, 2000
The Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs, to which was referred Bill C-445, to change the name of the electoral district of Rimouski--Mitis; and Bill C-473, to change the names of certain electoral districts, met this day at 10:52 a.m. to give consideration to the bills.
Senator Lorna Milne (Chairman) in the Chair.
[English]
Senator Milne: Honourable senators, I see a quorum, so this meeting of the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs is now convened.
Honourable senators, we are meeting today for clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-473, to change the names of certain electoral districts, and Bill C-445, to change the name of the electoral district of Rimouski--Mitis.
I propose to honourable senators that we begin with clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-473, which is the more far-ranging bill and about which I would like, at the appropriate time, to propose some observations for possible inclusion in our report to the Senate.
Is it agreeable to honourable senators that we begin with Bill C-447 and then proceed to Bill C-475?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Is there a motion that the committee proceed to clause-by-clause consideration?
Senator Moore: Madam Chairman, I move that the committee now proceed to clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-473, to change the names of certain electoral districts.
The Chairman: This is the one with 12 electoral districts. Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Opposed? Abstentions?
The motion is carried.
Senator Moore: Madam Chairman, I move that the committee adopt all clauses and the title of Bill C-473, "An Act to change the names of certain electoral districts."
The Chairman: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Senator Beaudoin: I do not know whether that is possible. Can we do that? This is what I would call an omnibus motion. If it is possible, I would agree.
The Chairman: Yes, it is. With unanimous agreement, we can do so. All those in favour?
Hon. Senators:Agreed.
The Chairman: Opposed? Abstentions?
I declare the motion carried.
Shall the bill carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: All those opposed? Abstentions?
The motion is carried.
Before concluding, I would propose that some possible observations be included in our report on the bill. Would it be agreeable to continue in camera to consider these possible observations?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The committee continued in camera.
The committee resumed in public.
The Chairman: We will return to a public hearing. The in camera session is now ended and the public may be admitted.
Senator Joyal: I am pleased with the report because it demonstrates that we do not take this issue lightly. As you know, there is a perception that because we are not elected we should deal with such issues at arm's length. This report shows quite clearly that we take our responsibilities seriously.
Even though senators are not elected, I have a name for my senatorial district. That is in the Constitution and I cannot change it. Perhaps if I could change it I would, for all the reasons we have discussed here. The senatorial districts in Quebec date back to the electoral map of 1864, so you can imagine that many things have changed since then.
Honourable senators, this is an excellent report in that it outlines that we have fulfilled our constitutional responsibility to seriously consider this bill. Even though this bill does not affect the status of the Senate but has an electoral impact in the other place, we have still taken it seriously.
I want to convey my thanks to the committee and to the staff.
The Chairman: Shall I report the bill to the Senate without amendment but with the observations agreed to?
Hon. Senators:Agreed.
The Chairman: All opposed? Abstentions?
I declare the motion carried.
That disposes of Bill C-473.
We will move to clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-445.
Is there be a motion that the committee proceed to clause-by-clause consideration?
Senator Andreychuk: I so move.
The Chairman: It is so moved by Senator Andreychuk. Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Opposed? Abstentions?
Senator Moore: I have a concern with that?
Senator Beaudoin: With Mitis?
Senator Moore: I thought that Madam Côté made a strong case that, for historical and geographical reasons, the name should remain the same.
The Chairman: The same argument applies to all the others, so I do not think that we should single out one riding.
Senator Beaudoin: Did she with Rimouski and with Mitis?
The Chairman: Yes.
Senator Joyal: Her preference was not to change the name because, she claimed, no one identified with the name "Neigette" since it is not the name of a city, town or locality, except that the MRC is called Rimouski--Neigette. It is the only place where the word Neigette has been used since 1982, and she claims that no one identifies with that word. There is no identification locally with that name.
Senator Andreychuk: This was her second choice, but she would live with it, if I understand correctly.
Senator Fraser: She would live with the status quo.
Senator Joyal: That is what the mayor says in the letter, that the status quo is preferred.
Senator Moore: I will defer to my friends from Quebec.
Senator Beaudoin: If everyone is able to live with it, it is not a bad settlement.
Senator Moore: Very well.
The Chairman: We have voted that we proceed to clause-by-clause consideration. Shall the title stand postponed? All those in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Opposed? Abstentions?
The motion is carried.
Shall clause 1 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Opposed? Abstentions?
I declare the motion carried.
Shall the title carry? All those in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Opposed? Abstentions?
I declare the motion carried.
The Chairman: Shall the bill carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Opposed? Abstentions?
I declare the motion carried.
Do honourable senators wish that the report on this bill to note that the observations contained in a report on Bill C-473 shall also apply to this bill?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Opposed? Abstentions?
The motion is carried.
Shall I report the bill to the Senate without amendment?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Opposed? Abstentions?
I declared the motion carried.
We have finished with clause-by-clause consideration. I will move to a few issues of information for the senators.
We received a letter from Naskapi Nation of Kawawachikamach about Bill C-23 which reads:
Dear Senator Milne:
On behalf of the Council and the members of the Naskapi Nation of Kawawachikamach, I would like to express my sincere thanks to you and the members of the Committee you chair for the good services rendered to the Naskapi Nation in connection with Bill C-23.
Prior to proceeding before your Committee, we felt that our voices had fallen on deaf ears. From my reading of the transcripts of the proceedings of your Committee and from the reports of our representatives, it is more than clear that our concerns were listened to and quickly understood by the members of your Committee, and that your committee played a key role in obtaining for us the commitment from the Government that we had been seeking from the outset for the protection of our treaty rights.
In Peace and Friendship...
The letter is signed by Chief Philip Einish.
Good for us.
Senator Pearson: I would like to bring to the attention of those honourable senators who have not read their morning newspapers that there is an article in the National Post, by Roy MacGregor, containing yet another attack on the Senate.
Senator Beaudoin: It was terrible.
Senator Pearson: I wish, when I read those things, that one of those people would actually come here for two days and watch what goes on. They recycle the old argument that everyone is falling asleep and so forth. It is extremely sad.
This kind of letter demonstrates to me that we have done our job.
The Chairman: That is right, and we did our job well.
Senator Pearson: Without us this would not be done.
The Chairman: We did our job well on Bill C-23. On behalf of the committee, I received an award for the work the committee did in connection with the bill as it dealt with criminal authors.
Honourable senators, I should also like to remind the committee that our request for the Senate to allow us to conduct a special study on sentencing is still adjourned in the name of Senator Kinsella. If we do not get it through the Senate before the summer, we will have lost the opportunity for the staff of the Library of Parliament to work on it over the summer, as well as the opportunity for us to deliberate on it in the fall.
I would suggest that some members of the committee consult with Senator Kinsella.
Senator Poy: I would make a suggestion. Could letters like these not be sent to the journalists who write these terrible articles? Have letters ever been sent to them?
The Chairman: I do not think so, no.
Senator Poy: They should be.
Senator Andreychuk: We must be careful not to use the aboriginal community in this way.
Senator Poy: I do not mean this particular letter.
Senator Andreychuk: It may be appropriate to deal with this during Senators' Statements, so that other senators will be aware of what we did in this regard. It could be carefully couched, in that it should stay within the Senate chamber. That should be sufficient.
The Chairman: Once it is within the Senate chamber and has been presented to the Senate, then it is a matter of public record. We would need permission from Mr. Einish, the author of the letter, to release it to the press.
Senator Joyal: Madam Chairman, since today is the birthday of our Library researcher, I would like to express our thanks and, of course, best wishes for a wonderful day.
The Chairman: Senator Joyal, you have done your homework. We have wonderful staff. We are well served by our Committees staff, Debates staff, and, most certainly, by the Library researchers. Thank you all very much.
The committee adjourned.