Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Aboriginal Peoples
Issue 12 - Evidence
OTTAWA, Tuesday, February 19, 2002
The Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples, to which was referred Bill C-37, to facilitate the implementation of those provisions of first nations' claim settlements in the Provinces of Alberta and Saskatchewan that relate to the creation of reserves or the addition of land to existing reserves, and to make related amendments to the Manitoba Claim Settlements Implementation Act and the Saskatchewan Treaty Land Entitlement Act, met this day at 9:00 a.m. to give consideration to the bill; and to examine access, provision and delivery of services, policy and jurisdictional issues, employment and education, access to economic opportunities, youth participation and empowerment, and other related matters.
Senator Thelma J. Chalifoux (Chairman) in the Chair.
[English]
The Chairman: The first item on our agenda is clause-by-clause examination of Bill C-37. We have heard presentations and have studied this bill. The bill, which is an administration bill, is quite clear and concise, in my opinion; I personally find no need for any amendments.
I should like comments. Does any honour senator wish to raise an issue with the bill?
Hearing no comment, is it agreed that I report this bill to the Senate without amendment?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: So be it.
I should now like to call the witnesses from the Solicitor General's department to the table.
Ms Kristine Burr, Assistant Deputy Solicitor General, Strategic Policy and Programs, Office of the Solicitor General Canada: We are very pleased, in fact, delighted, to have the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the important and serious question of urban Aboriginal youth in Canada and to tell you about the programs and services we have that support young people in general and in many cases specifically Aboriginal youth.
Let me set the context. It is well-known that Aboriginal youth are overrepresented in custody and probation and that they experience higher rates of victimization. This situation could become even worse if youth, the age group most at risk for criminal behaviour, remain marginalized and are not afforded opportunities to participate more fully in today's world, in particular in economic and social development. With current and projected demographics, the challenge of dealing with Aboriginal youth and their interactions with the criminal justice system is significant. We certainly appreciate the fact that this Senate committee has recognized this and is leading this investigation. It is probably one of the most important policy issues for the foreseeable future, and we are very happy to share what we have been trying to do.
[Translation]
You no doubt know that the Government committed itself, in the last Throne speech, to take steps to substantially reduce the percentage of Aboriginals at odds with the Canadian penal justice system, with the objective of lowering that its ratio to equal the Canadian average within one generation.
To achieve this, given the constitutional distribution of powers, the Government and the provinces will have to employ a concerted, global effort in the areas of economic development and viability. In our opinion, the penal justice programs and approaches that meet the needs of Aboriginals and that call upon their participation will be of primary importance.
[English]
We are pleased to provide you today with our testimony on the various areas of Solicitor General Canada that are contributing to achieving this goal. By way of introduction, let me say at the outset that the department is very small. We have about 240 employees in total. We are largely policy-focused, and we do have limited resources. That said, however, we are committed to working with others to make a difference and to providing leadership, albeit on a very modest scale, in the realm of policing and corrections.
Being small, we see the need to work collaboratively with other players as essential to our effectiveness. Our staff members work closely with Justice Canada, with DIAND and with colleagues within the RCMP and CSC, as well as with provincial government justice departments.
[Translation]
As far as the responsibilities of the Department regarding police services are concerned, you are no doubt aware that the First Nations Policing Policy, gives Aboriginal communities access to police services adapted to their culture. They are accountable for their activities to the communities they serve.
The FNPP is a tripartite program which includes the participation of the First Nations, the federal government and the provinces. It is first and foremost a police services program on the reserves, which makes it possible to finance Aboriginal police services or RCMP special units.
[English]
One of the most important requirements of the First Nations Policing Program, FNPP, is that officers are both professional and culturally sensitive. To the extent possible, this means that First Nations police services are staffed by Aboriginal police officers, whether they are members of self-administered, tribal police services or an RCMP detachment located in a First Nation community.
These officers are important role models to the young people in the communities and are agents of change, often starting up softball teams in the summer and running hockey games in the winter months. I think we have come to recognize over the past few years that providing recreational opportunities in communities is essential to ensuring that kids stay engaged and are part of the community activity.
While largely community-based, the FNPP does have an annual set-aside of $100,000 for projects in urban areas. This set-aside represents a pragmatic approach in the face of two realities. The provinces are constitutionally responsible for policing, but the federal government is well placed to promote and facilitate best practices in policing techniques and approaches.
Urban initiatives are undertaken in partnership with police, Aboriginal groups, municipalities, provinces and other federal departments, as appropriate, to address particular concerns. This work is especially important given the growing linkages between urban crime and incidents in First Nation communities.
Urban initiatives that we have undertaken have focused on such issues as the need for positive role models, diversion programs and police youth mentoring. With our limited resources, our aim is to influence as many people as possible toward positive outcomes. We support career fairs for Aboriginal youth so that they can know the vast array of possibilities open to them and can meet Aboriginal people who have successful careers. We fund programs that stress positive life skills, improved self-confidence and how to overcome adversity. We fund an initiative in Vancouver where youth of various ages and from various communities in the West are brought to the back alleys of the neighbourhood commonly known as the ``Downtown East Side'' to see for themselves the terrible human cost of drug and alcohol addiction. Participants are visibly shocked by what they witness and go home saying, ``I don't want to end up like that.''
We also finance projects in Saskatoon where police officers in the city dedicate their time to young people, particularly with respect to sport activities, in order to reduce the crime rate in high-risk neighbourhoods. These projects have shown that for greater success police must remain actively involved with youth, that sporadic contact does not produce the same positive results as regular consistent interventions.
[Translation]
The FNPP plays an important role in dealing with immigration and mobility problems of young people, since the First Nations Police Services must take care of youths who, sometimes take up residence in First Nation communities and, at other times, in the urban environment.
[English]
I believe you have discussed the ``churn'' phenomenon with Bill Pentney from the Department of Justice. Movement back and forth between First Nation communities and urban centres is a common fact for many Aboriginal people, not just youth. In our work with our colleagues at DIAND and Health Canada, we are discovering the education implications of youth who moves between his or her First Nation community and the downtown neighbourhood. There is no doubt that schooling suffers, and a pattern of intermittent schooling, of broken schooling, is truly a serious concern. This churn issue is important for everyone, but it is particularly important for young people.
It is well known that First Nation communities are breeding grounds for urban youth gangs in major cities such as Winnipeg, Regina, Saskatoon and Edmonton. Gangs recruit directly in First Nation communities or prey on youth who must leave their communities to attend high school in urban areas. A few years ago, we at Solicitor General funded an Aboriginal police officer from the Winnipeg police service — her named was Susan Swan — to go into First Nation communities with former youth gang members to tell kids what it is really like being in a gang, in order to debunk the myths that attract kids to that life. This project showed that the majority of the school-age youth in the participating First Nation communities either were gang members, knew gang members, had family who were gang members or expected that they themselves would become a gang member.
The honesty of the responses showed the severity of the problem. We are working through our police services to address this serious issue, but obviously policing alone does not solve this problem. Cohesive, coordinated responses involving the community members are what are really needed if we are going to deal with this issue.
It is clear that the migration of people and criminal activity is a significant challenge for First Nation and urban police alike. The newly expanded crime prevention program has created a small fund that will enable First Nation police services, working with community members, to apply for funding assistance to develop crime prevention initiatives right in the communities. One of the priority areas will be in projects that enable police and community members to work with kids and counterbalance the lure of youth gangs.
Examples of other crime prevention projects include a proposed youth cadet program in Nunavut that will be coordinated by the RCMP and will be modelled on a successful program in Saskatchewan. In addition, projects are being developed in Quebec to provide youth with diversionary activities to keep them away from alcohol and drugs.
I should now like to turn to corrections and healing initiatives that are underway within the department. A number of Aboriginal communities are returning to traditional cultural and spiritual approaches to restore balance between the needs of victims, offenders and their families and harmony within their communities. These community healing approaches are proving to be more effective in reducing recidivism, at least in the cases we have studied and developed, at a lower cost to governments than the Western correctional system. The Hollow Water First Nation healing process in Manitoba and the Biidaaban healing approach in the Mnjikaning First Nation in Ontario are two examples of our involvement with community healing. These processes have other benefits to the community, by creating a platform for sustainable cultural, social and economic development.
The department's Aboriginal Corrections Policy Unit has been recognized by sources such as the Aboriginal Healing Foundation as being on the cutting edge of community healing. In addition to the initiatives I have just mentioned, Aboriginal corrections is testing the adoption of healing principles relevant to the Inuit through a project in Rankin Inlet, and for both adult and young offenders in an urban area with the Winnipeg Native Alliance. To support the expansion of community healing approaches, Aboriginal corrections shares information through its publication series, promotes the exchange of community expertise through fora and meetings and supports community capacity- building initiatives.
I have brought some examples of our publication series and will be happy to leave these with the research team at the end of the presentation.
Healing processes require the coordination of multiple partners in the community, particularly as communities seldom differentiate between adult and youth offenders. Likewise, there is a need for effective coordination among federal government departments, provincial and territorial governments, and Aboriginal communities. For that reason, Aboriginal corrections works closely with staff of the Aboriginal justice directorate, the youth justice and crime prevention at Justice Canada, Indian Affairs, the Aboriginal Healing Foundation, provinces, territories and, most important, Aboriginal communities and organizations. We have learned that close collaboration with other social program providers and a sustained relationship with Aboriginal communities and organizations is an important ingredient in successful outcomes.
The Aboriginal baby boom will create a significant challenge for corrections, and my colleague Gina Wilson will be talking in a moment about all the activities CSC is undertaking to deal with this.
The Aboriginal population is younger and growing faster than non-Aboriginal populations. Birth rates are approximately 2.5 times higher than the non-Aboriginal population. In Saskatchewan, a growth rate of 32 per cent is projected for the First Nation population between 15 and 24 years of age by the year 2010. This is the age group that is the most vulnerable to criminal involvement, and we will be faced with an increased number entering the federal correctional system.
Many offenders, however, have not only turned their lives around, but wish to stop the destructive cycle of institutionalization of Aboriginal youth. The department has recognized that Aboriginal offenders are untapped resources for youth crime prevention. Our Aboriginal corrections unit recently hosted a gathering with Aboriginal service providers, offenders and corrections officials to explore strategies for using Aboriginal offenders as resources for urban-based youth crime prevention projects. The result of this gathering will be used to test this approach in two Western Canadian urban communities.
It is well known that a child whose parent is an offender faces a much greater likelihood of becoming an offender. Some studies indicate that the risk is six times greater than for the average child. One of our most important challenges is to stop the cycle of re-offending and to prevent offending from passing from generation to generation.
Aboriginal corrections will establish a pilot project to work with children and families of Aboriginal offenders in one urban centre. Beginning while the offender is incarcerated and continuing after release, this project will help offenders' families establish a supportive community environment and build upon the progress made by offenders while incarcerated. We will be evaluating and documenting the lessons learned from this project so that others may benefit.
My colleague from the RCMP will now say a few words.
Ms Dorothy Ahlgren Franklin, Officer in Charge, National Youth Strategy, Royal Canadian Mounted Police: Honourable senators, Commissioner Zaccardelli has made a clear organizational commitment to youth through the strategic planning process in our organization. Youth is one of the force's strategic priorities and is the focus of our efforts to achieve our overall strategic goal, which is to contribute to keeping Canadians, their homes and their communities safe.
In the area of youth, we are focusing on the root causes of crime and criminal behaviour. We focus on community partnerships. As Ms Burr pointed out, many of these issues are not policing issues alone, but involve the entire community, and that is the approach we are taking. We are also working deliberately on prevention measures and promoting restorative justice.
Alternative, or restorative, justice is another of the strategic priorities of our organization and is closely linked to the objectives of our youth strategy, which I will speak about more.
We have a continued commitment to working with Aboriginal people. We have a long and solid legacy with Aboriginal people in this country. Over the last 10 years, in particular, we have been building on this legacy by articulating our commitment to it and our vision with respect to Aboriginal policing. We have a unique relationship with Aboriginal peoples. That relationship is visible in the types of specialty services and support provided through RCMP Aboriginal policing services across the country.
The National Youth Strategy is one of our strategic objectives. In 1999, the senior executive committee of the RCMP identified youth as a strategic priority. The objectives are quite straightforward. We aim to deal effectively with youth who do offend and to reduce youth crime and victimization. We focus on crime prevention through social development. Community partnerships are an important element of this work, as is youth engagement.
We know that we have a key role as police officers in youth justice issues. Police are often the first point of contact with a young person and the justice system. That role is pivotal. In the context of youth justice renewal, we clearly have the opportunity for a renewed effort with youth.
The emphasis in our organization is on activities and actions that are sustainable. Ms Burr mentioned that one-off measures do not work and that what we are looking for is a sustained approach.
It is also important that we measure what we do. In that respect, two of our divisions, ``L'' Division in P.E.I. and ``M'' Division in Yukon, have identified themselves as pilot divisions under the youth strategy, in which case they will be carefully documenting the achievements that are made in the well-being of youth in those communities.
At headquarters, the National Aboriginal Policing Services is the policy centre for the delivery of RCMP Aboriginal policing services across Canada.
Following a national review in the year 2000, we developed a strategic plan called ``Breaking Trail.'' The first part of the plan is strengthening the profile of Aboriginal policing within and outside of our own organization; the second is building service capacity to ensure that services are aligned with community needs. Our consultations in the context of that review clearly indicated the expectation of our clientele that we focus on youth. That was a clear message. Given the demographics that we have heard about already in terms of the Aboriginal population, this is very significant for us.
We have a slide that relates to RCMP clients. I shall not repeat the demographic information that has been provided by Ms Burr this morning. However, this segment is the fastest growing sector of the Canadian population, with almost 50 per cent of this population under the age of 25. That is significant for police because this is the age group in which young people come into contact with the police.
A slide from Statistics Canada illustrates that the Aboriginal population is younger and growing more rapidly than the non-Aboriginal population.
I understand that the focus of this committee's deliberations is urban Aboriginal youth. For the most part, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police serve Aboriginal people in rural areas rather than in large urban centres, as we are not the police of jurisdiction in many of those urban centres where there is a high Aboriginal population.
The issue of movement from one community to another is an extremely significant one. The way we are working within our jurisdictions is in close liaison with the police of local jurisdiction in an urban setting.
On the subject of our operating environment, we are certainly aware of the demographic realities, the population boom, the over-representation of Aboriginal people in the corrections system and the commitments made in the 2001 Speech from the Throne to reduce the percentage of Aboriginal people incarcerated to that of the Canadian average within a generation.
We know that our communities are very much affected by serious health issues. The suicide rates that are so high for Aboriginal youth, aged 15 to 24, are three to seven times higher than the national average.
Fetal alcohol syndrome and effects, as well as other neurological conditions that are the result of prenatal alcohol, affect our communities. There have been many estimates of numbers, some which indicate that as high as 40 per cent of the adult population are affected. Certain studies show that up to 30 per cent of expectant mothers consume significant amounts of alcohol while pregnant. This is a very serious issue for us, from both the prevention perspective and the law enforcement perspective.
There are high levels of communicable diseases such as tuberculosis, hepatitis, diabetes, cancer, cardiovascular disease and HIV-AIDS.
With regard to employment challenges, the RCMP has some measures in place aimed at offering employment opportunities for Aboriginal youth.
The approach we are taking in our communities is multi-faceted and is based on broad community partnerships. Those partnerships are apparent not only at headquarters here in Ottawa but also at the divisional headquarters located in urban centres in the provinces, as well as at the community level. We are very much stressing partnership. At the divisional headquarters level in the provinces, we work to facilitate these extensive urban, rural and provincial partnerships.
There are some specific youth initiatives that may be of interest to you. In the area of health, one of the novel approaches we have used is a program called ``White Stone.'' It comes from the Ojibwa concept of one who teaches others how to grow old. Young participants in this program gave it its name.
White Stone is a suicide prevention training program based on peer helping principles. It represents a partnership between the RCMP and Suicide Prevention Training Programs, SPTP, a non-profit arm of the Canadian Mental Health Association. The program has two components: teaching young adults and community caregivers about suicide prevention, and training them to present suicide education workshops to youth in their home communities.
The youth education sessions are intended to be presented to youth over the age of 16 who are not known to be at risk for suicide. In other words, we are looking for leaders in the Aboriginal youth population. The participants in the White Stone program are Aboriginal and Inuit youth aged 18 to 25. We have been conducting this program for about a year and a half and will be evaluating its outcomes. Initial indications by participants are that the opportunity to share stories and gather strength from each other as they work in their own communities is extremely important.
According to the World Health Organization, fetal alcohol syndrome is the leading known cause of mental retardation in western civilization, and it is 100 per cent preventable. As I mentioned earlier, estimates of the numbers of people involved in the criminal justice system affected by prenatal consumption of alcohol range quite widely. Cases are often not diagnosed.
We do know that the communities in which we serve, many of which are rural or remote communities, are affected. Our members need to be very aware of the implications of this for our clients.
We are very cognizant, for example, of the Leonard Martin case in Manitoba last year. In that case, the judge said that ``moral culpability must be judged in light of his abilities and intellectual impairment.'' That clearly has implications for how the police conduct their work. It may be that adjustments must be made in the way we take statements. Perhaps statements should be videotaped. There is a need to guide these individuals through the courtroom procedure. They may need to be released into the care of a guardian. These are all issues we are exploring in the context of how to serve clients, be they witnesses, victims or suspects. How is a police organization to react appropriately to these individuals?
In the area of substance abuse, the RCMP has a long history of providing substance abuse prevention programs to young people. I will mention two briefly. One is the Aboriginal Shield Program developed a number of years ago for Cree and other Prairie cultures. It is not appropriate for other Aboriginal groups, and we have had to be cognizant of that. Elders in the community want these programs to be culturally sensitive. Sometimes they are sensitive to one group but not to another. We cannot make assumptions about the transferability of a particular program.
DARE is another program being used now, particularly in British Columbia, with Aboriginal youth. It is a fairly general program and is very popular with police. You have probably read about it in the newspaper. There is considerable discussion around whether the program is effective. Many Aboriginal communities like this program because it is culturally neutral. Discussion with community members indicates that the program is seen to provide a solid basis upon which a culturally specific overlay can be appropriate. We have Aboriginal personnel trained to teach Aboriginal youth in northern British Columbia. We currently have five officers using that program.
Sexual exploitation is another key issue for us. It is an important area within the National Youth Strategy because it affects Aboriginal youth in a very particular way. It is very important that police perceive youth in the sex trade as sexually exploited youth as opposed to youth prostitutes, for example. I signal that to emphasize the focus we are placing on this issue within our organization. Within the issue of sexual exploitation, we are working on a wide range of issues, such as intelligence gathering and sharing, investigations, awareness and prevention.
We were one of the sponsors of the pivotal conference Out of the Shadows, the first international summit of sexually exploited youth, in Victoria, in 1998, organized by Senator Pearson and Cherry Kingsley. While we were not the leaders in this, we were one of the partners, and we have followed the developments of that work very closely. We know that there are many manifestations of sexual exploitation. We have learned this from the Save the Children Canada project ``Sacred Lives: Canadian Aboriginal Children and Youth Speak Out About Sexual Exploitation,'' about children who often gravitate to an urban setting from their rural environment.
We know that youth exchange sex for food, shelter, drugs, approval or a sense of safety and security. Youth from small communities and reserves run away to the city, and they are vulnerable. Estimates are that about 8 per cent of runaways or missing children in Canada are Aboriginal.
One location in which this is particularly evident is Whitehorse. I want to say a few words about the Whitehorse Homelessness Initiative. The RCMP is working in a very broad-based partnership with other community members to address the root causes of homelessness in that city. The implications for youth are very significant. We are providing financial support and expertise to programs and projects in Whitehorse aimed at the needs of children, youth and their families where homelessness is an issue.
This work is demonstrating to our members the need for a longer-term perspective of the interventions. There is no quick fix. In many communities we are looking at an effort that will be sustainable.
The specific project with which we are involved in Whitehorse is the Whole Child Project. This project provides support services to children and their families after-hours. These families are homeless, either absolutely or relatively, and the police volunteer in the evenings. They provide transportation to the families and are building a trusting relationship between the police and Aboriginal peoples, which is very important.
Another project in which we are involved is the Aboriginal Cities Project, about which this committee has heard earlier from the Department of Justice. We are participating in the Winnipeg project where we are partnering with the Winnipeg police services and other service providers to identify the services that are available to Aboriginal youth and to identify the gaps. This approach is aimed at providing a continuum of support to Aboriginal youth who may be vulnerable to victimization and criminal activity when they move to the city.
Much of our work in the area of victimization is aimed at youth. I will mention here the family violence initiative, a federal initiative under which the RCMP receives funding. We focus our efforts in the areas of victim issues, relationship violence prevention, and sexual assault investigations. For the most part, the outcomes are workshops or training opportunities and the development of educational materials, not just for our own members but for community members as well.
We also have a very active partnership with the Aboriginal Nurses Association of Canada. We formed this partnership in 1999 because we recognized the serious impact of family violence in Aboriginal communities, and the impact not only on women but also on children. We are very conscious of the cyclical effect of witnessing violence and then being a part of family violence as a perpetrator.
In November 2001, and again just earlier this month, we held national consultations with elders and Aboriginal frontline service providers and are developing a national action plan to address family violence in Canadian Aboriginal communities. This will complement the federal government's Family Violence Initiative, which at this time does not include Aboriginal peoples.
We have also partnered with DIAND and Status of Women to fund a national circle against family violence. This is made up of Aboriginal executive directors of transition homes and second-stage housing, both on- and off-reserve in Canada. We were aware from a 1999 meeting that service providers had no mechanism for sharing information among themselves. Therefore, we have supported the development of this national circle. As I said, this is being funded by DIAND and we are participating in that process. We have a very good working relationship with this organization. That is key, because these are frontline service providers who, in the community, have a very close working relationship with the police. It is a relationship we want to strengthen.
Kristine Burr has mentioned the impact of gang activity on youth, whether in an urban or rural setting. Therefore, I will limit my remarks to say that, in Winnipeg, our members in ``D'' Division are members of the gang awareness unit in Winnipeg that is working closely with other agencies to share information about gangs and to work on prevention.
The RCMP has a long history of employing Aboriginal people. The Aboriginal Cadet Development Program is a very successful youth recruitment program. This permits Aboriginal youth who do not initially meet RCMP basic entrance requirements a maximum of two years to address identified shortcomings so that they are able to come into the RCMP at the same level as other candidates. It is a tripartite funding arrangement among HRDC, the RCMP and the province or territory where the program occurs. The individuals who are involved in this program undergo a three- week assessment at the RCMP Training Academy in Regina.
Over the last seven years, the Aboriginal Cadet Development Program has helped over 200 Aboriginal youth become regular members of the RCMP. We consider this a very impressive success. All of the 337 young people who have participated, not all of whom have become regular members, have benefited from this experience and the upgrading of their skills. Many have continued with their education and have obtained permanent employment in similar fields.
In October 2001, the Aboriginal Cadet Development Program was one of 15 international semi-finalists from over 280 entries to receive the Webber Seavey Award for Excellence in Policing from the International Association of Chiefs of Police.
Another program I should like to mention is the Aboriginal Youth Training Program, the AYTP, a program that provides Aboriginal young people with 17 weeks of summer employment, including three weeks of training at RCMP Training Academy. When they return to their detachments near their homes, the students work under the direct supervision and guidance of a regular member of the RCMP. This is a funding partnership with Indian and Northern Affairs Canada. In the past two years, 52 young people have participated in the program, now including Nunavut.
Just to change the focus a little, our own organization is committed to continuous learning. One of the issues we are focused on is that of racial tolerance and racism. I have highlighted here several of the areas in which we are putting our efforts. First, the Commissioner's National Aboriginal Advisory Committee, CNAAC, is comprised of 13 Aboriginal people who meet with the RCMP commissioner and senior management twice a year. The committee provides the commissioner with strategic advice and a cultural perspective on matters related to service delivery. The committee acts as a watchdog and brings regional issues to the attention of the commissioner. CNAAC is particularly interested in racism and, as a group, has facilitated ongoing dialogue and strategies to combat inherent racism within the organization. The committee also, I might add, has a particular interest in our youth strategy and has been very helpful in guiding our work in that area, particularly in the area of youth engagement.
Another area of learning for our members is Aboriginal Perceptions Training. This is a partnership between the RCMP and the Aboriginal Justice Learning Network in the form of a secondment. We have one individual dedicated to this. She provides training to the RCMP, to communities and to other government departments in both Aboriginal perceptions and restorative justice.
At the RCMP Training Academy, we have a problem-solving model of training that invites young recruits to do thinking around their work, to look for community partnerships and to look for solutions designed for the problem at hand. A particular training program offered there is the Canadian Law Enforcement Training Unit, CLET. It is offered at the RCMP Training Academy not only to RCMP cadets but also to other government departments that have ongoing work with Aboriginal communities — for example, Fisheries and Oceans and Parks Canada. We are able to provide this opportunity for insights into the complexities of Aboriginal communities and the factors that contribute to societal change in those communities. We do so using a scenario-based learning method that promotes sensitization to Aboriginal people and their beliefs.
Finally, in the area of continuous learning, I will go back to the area of youth because for us a major focus at the moment is preparing our members to play their appropriate role under youth criminal justice renewal. Certainly with the anticipated passage of the proposed Youth Criminal Justice Act, we are devoting much of our efforts right now to preparing information and learning resources for our members in how they behave pursuant to this proposed legislation, in which the police have such a significant role. The proposed legislation places a strong emphasis on that initial point of contact between the young person and the police. It requires that the police officer consider the use of extrajudicial measures. It calls for culturally appropriate measures for youth.
The police will have a role in conferencing, either pre-charge or at other stages, and again the knowledge and the cultural needs of the community are very significant. We have developed a learning plan that has two components: an orientation on the general principles of the legislation and training specific to the provisions of the legislation. A part of that learning component is dealing with FAS-FAE — in other words, how our members interact with people and what they need to know if a client is suspected to be affected by alcohol.
We are very much focused on restorative justice. We have, within the RCMP, the Community Justice Forum as the model we are using. We are continuing to train our members and other community partners in the Community Justice Forum and the role of the facilitator. It is a safe and controlled setting in which an offender, a victim and supporters are brought together with a trained facilitator to discuss the offence, its effects, and to decide how to right the wrong. Initial indications are that it is very successful with young people who come into contact with the law, and particularly with Aboriginal communities.
Finally, in closing, as the first point of contact for many Aboriginal youth, we are very aware that the RCMP has a key role to play in creating innovative solutions to many of the youth services delivery challenges. As an organization, we are committed to championing youth issues for the next four years, and this has been articulated by our commissioner and is well-understood throughout our organization.
I appreciate this opportunity to share our vision for our work with youth with you, and we look forward to our continuing partnership within the portfolio for this important work.
The Chairman: The Metis are conspicuous by their absence in your presentation. The Metis represent a large portion of the inmate population within the penitentiaries and within the jail system. That concerns me.
Ms Franklin, you forgot to mention the Aboriginal advisory committees for all the divisions in Canada, which are very important. In Alberta, I am fortunate to have been a member of that advisory committee for many years. We also have something very interesting in Alberta in ``K'' Division. I do not know if you have something similar across the country. I am a shadow elder for some of our detachments in the northern part of Alberta, and I think that is very important in assisting the members not only to understand the communities but to also support the members in a number of very confusing and tragic situations that they face. That is something that is very important and must be addressed.
Ms Franklin: Thank you.
Ms Gina Wilson, Director General, Aboriginal Issues Branch, Correctional Service of Canada: I am an Algonquin from the Kitigan Zibi First Nation near Maniwaki, Quebec. I also like to think I am still an Aboriginal youth, because the definition of youth goes to age 35; at least, that is what I have heard. Nevertheless, I have had some experiences working with Aboriginal youth throughout my career, most recently as Director General of the Aboriginal Issues Branch of the Correctional Service of Canada.
As you are likely aware, there is a current and growing over-representation of Aboriginal offenders in our federal facilities. I shall not go into a lot of detail about the significant gaps that exist between parole rates, conditional releases and so on. Suffice it to say that Aboriginal offenders do not do as well safely and successfully reintegrating into the community as do non-Aboriginal offenders.
We have approximately 4,500 Aboriginal offenders in our population, and they are generally younger than the mainstream population. Approximately 70 per cent of our Aboriginal population was living in an urban centre at the time of their sentence. In their youth, a larger proportion spent time in foster care or group homes. In fact, we have just recently completed a study that demonstrates that a significant over-representation of federal offenders have been in foster care and group homes. A significant proportion is dealing with issues of substance abuse, violence and sexual dysfunction.
The reality is that the Correctional Service of Canada is at the tail end of a very long continuum throughout an Aboriginal person's life. The individual has generally had many damaging experiences prior to being given a federal sentence of incarceration. This is a sad reality.
However, there are some examples of successes, breakthroughs and contributions that the correctional system is making in the lives of Aboriginal offenders, and subsequently their families and their communities. Throughout the past several years, we have relied on the services of elders, Aboriginal liaison workers, and even more recently we have expanded these core services and hired Aboriginal community development officers. These are individuals working in the community. We have hired Aboriginal cultural and program delivery officers working inside the institutions.
We have also established a number of Aboriginal program alternatives and several Aboriginal committees to develop services to Aboriginal offenders and communities. Like the RCMP, we have a national advisory committee. We also have Aboriginal advisory committees in each of our regional headquarters, as well as at the local level in some cases.
We also work with all of the national Aboriginal organizations and are starting to tailor many of our programs and initiatives to be more responsive to our Metis and Inuit offenders, because many of our approaches have been First Nation-driven to this point in time.
Agreements with Aboriginal communities to develop and operate healing lodges such as the Okimaw Ohci healing lodge for women, Pe Sakastew in Sampson Cree, Willow Cree healing lodge in Beardy's and others are underway. Currently, CSC works with eight healing lodges across Canada, and several more Aboriginal communities are involved in working with Aboriginal offenders to provide community-based reintegration services. We have encountered some successes with the healing lodges. It is my opinion that some of these healing lodges can be adapted to better respond to Aboriginal youth vis-à-vis correctional services for them.
In addition, CSC has launched a recruitment drive that hopes to hire approximately 1,000 more Aboriginal people over the next four years. Currently, the proportion of Aboriginal staff in CSC is about 5.5 per cent. The objective is to increase this in all staff categories.
Aboriginal gangs have posed a significant challenge for federal corrections. Approximately 300 Aboriginal gang members are currently incarcerated, mainly in the Prairie region. They often pose significant security threats and have unique reintegration needs. In the spring of 2000, Ovide Mercredi completed a review of this issue and presented the CSC with a report and recommendations. CSC then developed a pilot correctional initiative on Aboriginal gangs based in Winnipeg. A team of five Aboriginal people has been hired to carry out a teamwork-type process. Their mission is to change the directional path of current Aboriginal gang members from a criminal lifestyle to a path of healing and positive contribution in the community.
Over the past six months, and this is a very new initiative, this team has been successful in creating numerous partners in Manitoba and with Aboriginal groups. They have reduced tension, incidents and violence at Stony Mountain Institution, and have established a client caseload, in a short amount of time, of about 50 Aboriginal gang members who are in the process of disaffiliation and are working with them on a day-to-day basis towards a healing path.
We are currently working with Aboriginal peoples to readjust our Aboriginal strategy so that we can make better progress in preparing Aboriginal offenders for successful release. The Aboriginal pathways and federal corrections strategy will get underway, in an attempt to pull many of the pieces together and to ensure a contribution to the over- incarceration of Aboriginal peoples in Canada. This strategy will ensure that an Aboriginal offender will access an Aboriginal-specific service or initiative from day one of sentence to the last day of sentence, so it is trying to establish a continuum of services.
One of the most important lessons I have learned from working in corrections is the importance of recognizing that investments in Aboriginal people need to be made in communities at the front end of the life cycle, not at the back where I am; in other words, the program service and initiatives that are child and youth centred. The majority of Aboriginal offenders I have come to know over the past few years has experienced trauma in early childhood years; every single one of them I have met have experienced at least some type of trauma. This agency has a responsibility to ensure that federal offenders do not return to prison.
Aboriginal issues is one of the four strategic priorities in the department. However, it will take a more concerted federal-provincial-territorial effort to have any impact on the number of Aboriginal youth coming into the federal correctional system and to respond to the Speech from the Throne, which calls for a reduction of over-incarceration of Aboriginal offenders.
The Chairman: Your presentation is most interesting. I would ask you to provide copies of those reports to our research staff. It is important that we deal with that.
Senator Carney: Ms Franklin, are you an officer in the RCMP, or are you just ordinary Ms Franklin?
Ms Franklin: I am just Dorothy Franklin.
Senator Carney: That is fine, because I am just Pat Carney.
In view of the information you gave, I wanted to ask you for your response to the comments by the Secretary of State, Indian Affairs and Northern Development, Stephen Owen, on his appointment that Aboriginal youth were similar to the Palestinian youth and were a powder keg, which was a worrisome matter to him. The Minister of Indian Affairs defused that issue, but since Minister Owen would have been briefed by his department he must have had some reason to give that statement.
Could you respond to his comments that Aboriginal youth represented a powder keg of potential violence? I do not have the exact quote, unfortunately.
Ms Franklin: I certainly read in the newspaper the comments that Stephen Owen made regarding Aboriginal youth and the stresses that they are under, which he predicted might lead to some violence. I was not part of briefing him on that so I cannot comment on that. Within our communities, we are highly aware of the needs of Aboriginal youth. I would echo the comments that Ms Wilson has made about the need for interventions early on in the lives of these children.
Senator Carney: Are you aware of anything going on in those communities that would lead the minister to make that statement, if you and the RCMP are on the front line? What is the nature of the information that exists that would cause him to make that statement?
Ms Franklin: I am not aware of any information that would lead to that conclusion. I was not part of the briefing that he received.
Senator Carney: As far as you are concerned, in the information that you have in the communities in which you work, which are mostly rural communities you say, is there any evidence of a powder keg situation?
Ms Franklin: We are certainly aware of the issue of gang recruitment, which we talked about this morning, and the attraction of gang activity to young people, whether they are in the urban setting or in a rural setting. However, I have no information that would lead me to concur or otherwise comment on the statement that Mr. Owen has made.
Senator Carney: Who are the gang leaders and where do they come from, when they go out and recruit in areas of say the interior of British Columbia? They do not seem to be as prevalent, and I could be wrong — your information would be better than mine — but they do not seem to be as evident in the coastal communities as in the interior communities. Who are the leaders of the gangs and where do they come from? When you say that there is all this gang activity and recruitment of gang activity, who are the recruiters and where do they come from?
Ms Burr: Our understanding is that there are usually linkages to well-established biker gangs or groups with linkages to organized crime, and that the problem is particularly noticeable in certain parts of the country, certainly on the Prairies in Manitoba and starting to stretch over into Saskatchewan, I understand, recently in a number of the major cities in the West, in particular.
Senator Carney: Those are not particularly Aboriginal cultural activities, are they, biker gangs, et cetera? What is the attraction for the youth? If you were to deal with the issue of gangs, I would imagine you would have to deal with the source of the pressure not the result of the pressure.
Ms Burr: One of the things we are becoming increasingly aware of is that the whole issue of gang membership and the lure of gang participation is tied not necessarily solely to interesting criminal activity. It is a question of wanting membership in a group, and quite often for these young people it offers an attractive alternative to a life that may not be particularly happy or healthy and is often tied to impoverishment. There are fundamental social problems that are driving this as much as a particular interest in engaging in criminal activity.
Ms Franklin: I would reiterate those comments, and refer to a national forum on youth gangs that the RCMP and the Solicitor General sponsored in Winnipeg a year ago. The reasons that youth give for their involvement in gangs is that it gives them a sense of belonging, essentially a surrogate family. The difficulty for those who determine at a certain point that this is not the life they thought it would be is that exiting is extremely difficult. We know from the experiences of young people that those who do make a decision to try to exit a gang need a strong community support system while they are undergoing that process. We also understand that it is really a sense of belonging, a sense of protection and a sense of identity.
Senator Carney: In British Columbia, one of the most successful programs has been initiated by the RCMP, and that is the canoe trips down the coast, re-creation of some of the Aboriginal journeys down the coast in the tradition Haida canoes visiting communities. The program is mixed Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal, but I believe the RCMP initiated it. Many of the programs you have described appear to me to be top down. The concept of workshops, initiatives and partnerships, et cetera, is something we use in many areas and may or may not be successful.
What other initiatives can you advise us about that come at the community level initiated by the RCMP members themselves that follow this successful and visible cooperation that occurs on the coast with the Haida canoe journeys?
Ms Franklin: The canoe journeys are popular and successful in British Columbia and also in the Yukon. My presentation did not give due attention to the many positive interventions of our members at the community level with young people. We have many examples of sports activity, of youth clubs being developed, of snow boarding, of skiing, of a variety of outdoor camps, activities that either are development by our members or facilitated or instigated by our members, but in very close consultation with the Aboriginal leaders, the elders and advisers in the community.
We have literacy programs operating in communities where there is not a family history of reading to children, and our members in fact are doing so. They are going to schools, and we are providing books either because the school library is non-existent or it is inadequate. Our members are trying to encourage over the longer term the habit of reading to children and of older children reading to younger children, again with a view to more sustainable activities.
Many of the programs at work in the communities may be short term. One of the challenges we face is that while a program may be very successful in a community it may be dependent upon the skills or the interests of a particular member, and if that member leaves the community the program may not be sustainable. We are consciously addressing this, so that these highly successful, community-based programs are not resting solely with the police but more with a partnership that involves other community members. In that way, the programs can continue.
Senator Carney: Could you give the committee examples of those programs? Obviously, you could not do that for 100 per cent of the programs, but could you perhaps provide us with some case history?
The Chairman: Perhaps the witness could provide us with a report on some of the more successful community programs.
Ms Franklin: I would be pleased to do that.
Senator Carney: It would also be helpful if you could provide us with some information on those programs that were not successful.
The Chairman: Ms Wilson, did you want to respond to the gang situation?
Ms Wilson: I wanted to follow up on Senator Carney's question about the gangs and the recruiters, and where they come from. In terms of young Aboriginal people who are encountering family disruption, they find a sense of belonging or a sense of family in the gang.
They also have a lack of identity. Many urban Aboriginal youth may not feel accepted by their First Nation or Metis community. They may not feel accepted by the urban non-native community, but they certainly feel acceptance within the gang. The best approach and key to that is to provide alternatives, and alternatives that are accepting as well. Where we have encountered much success is through the healing path, and those types of alternatives where there is acceptance, belonging and family. There are all of those missing elements, but provided in a positive way.
Senator Johnson: Is the Hollow Water community healing program a joint program with which the RCMP has been involved?
Ms Burr: The Hollow Water program was initiated by the Solicitor General of Canada but has been picked up and is now funded by Justice Canada. The program has been in existence for a number of years. We had a program evaluation recently that shows that it is cost-effective. It is proving to be a platform for economic and social activity in the community. It is something of a success story and we hope to build on it elsewhere.
Senator Johnson: Evidently, of those who participated in the Hollow Water program, 44 per cent found it to be positive and 33 per cent found it to be negative. The important finding is that 72 per cent of offenders and only 28 per cent of the victims found sentencing circles to be a positive experience. When you are giving us a report, perhaps you could comment on what is happening at Hollow Water. You are saying it is a success, but the latest figures do not show that.
Ms Burr: Senator, I suspect you are probably quoting from our evaluation study.
Senator Johnson: That is the information we have on the program. If you are providing us with some details, as Senator Carney was requesting, perhaps you could comment on that. If these figures are not appropriate, they should be changed.
Ms Burr: On balance, the program was found to be both cost-effective and generally supportive of community members. Not everyone in the community was totally supportive. In anything that involves reconciliation and dealing with people who have suffered and had injury done to them, you will not have total consensus. However, on balance, the program was determined to have worked well.
Senator Sibbeston: In the 1990s, I worked in the area of community justice. I was well placed for that. I was a lawyer, an Aboriginal person and spoke the language.
For the years that I worked in this area, I was able to work with the communities to set up community justice circles. It took much effort and work on my part. I had to go to the communities to convince them that they should do their own dirty work, not have the Royal Canadian Mounted Police do their work. People were colonized to believe that the status quo, the RCMP and the justice system, was the only way to go.
Our justice system is rigid, established and tough to change. I have been involved in government, and we changed things such as education and housing in many aspects. However, the justice system is the most difficult and the last area that is being transferred to the community.
When we talk about changing the lives of people, particularly in terms of crime and offences, I believe this can be done best at the community level, working with communities to establish community justice systems. The RCMP and the justice system are significantly entrenched. When a crime takes place, the RCMP will do the police-type work. They will interview and investigate. Soon after, a pile of documents on the corporal's desk will hold the information, the charges, the summons to appear, and so forth. The matter then goes to court, where the person is sentenced or may be given a fine or sent to jail. That is a cold, heartless and unemotional process.
The alternative is a community justice system, where the community deals with the issue on an emotional basis and healing occurs.
However, when you give the community the ability to provide its own justice, you are challenging the system. You are essentially saying that the present system of RCMP, judges, prosecutors and lawyers is no longer needed. This represents a threat to the establishment. All of these people make their living in this fashion. There is even a threat to the RCMP. If this system works, not as many RCMP will be needed.
When you are involved in this process of community justice, you embark on a significant change in the way the RCMP and the jails do their work. At best, you will not have people going to jail and you will not need the RCMP, because the community will deal with the problems. There will be a healing process.
My experience is that as we got involved in a project there was less crime and fewer people in jail and less need for the RCMP. That is what is at issue.
I have found most RCMP members to be not that sensitive. They are not that interested; they want to continue their lives the way they normally do business.
One member of the RCMP who I dealt with in the three years of my involvement was very open. He said that he had been a member of the RCMP for 20-odd years and that sending people to jail has not worked. He was completely involved and on board in this new project. With his involvement, we were able to make a great deal of progress and success.
Do you understand what is involved here? These are big changes. If you embark on this approach, you need to ensure that the RCMP are trained and are open to this new approach. On your part, the department and the status quo, you need to do a significant amount of work to ensure that the RCMP and the officials in the justice system realize what is at issue and that they are willing to take this new approach to life.
How committed are you? This approach will involve displacement of jobs and positions in authority.
Ms Franklin: That is an interesting issue you have raised. I have not heard this issue raised in the context of restorative justice in my organization. It would be difficult to find a higher commitment than we have, that is, that restorative justice is one of our five strategic priorities for our organization.
It is very clear that from the top of our organization there is a commitment to restorative justice. We have heard this from our own communities. In consultations with the Aboriginal communities in particular, they have told us that they want community-based approaches such as this. The commissioner has been very clear that restorative justice is one of our objectives and it is very closely tied to our objectives with youth.
With regard to the issue you raised about the training and the mindset of our members, since 1994, which is when the RCMP embraced restorative justice and went about training our members and community members in it, it has really taken off in our organization. We have many strong advocates of restorative justice among our members who mirror the openness of the individual you cited. When they see one young person go through the justice system, they know that other young siblings will likely follow. They are very keen on the use of restorative justice approaches throughout their communities. There is a great deal of activity. We have over 3,000 people trained as facilitators and it is an area in which we want to do more.
As an organization, we have embraced this and are very interested in pursuing it. We are involved nationally and internationally in the furthering of knowledge about restorative justice. We recently participated in a United Nations meeting hosted by Canada here in Ottawa. It was a meeting of experts in restorative justice for the purpose of establishing principles that would be taken to the United Nations and endorsed by other countries. Those principles would form the basis of our own work in restorative justice.
My organization is very committed to restorative justice, although we clearly have much work to do.
Senator Sibbeston: In Canada, charges are laid all the time. Instead of the RCMP dealing with offenders in a more casual and restorative kind of way, charges are laid. Having been a lawyer earlier in my life, I know that the RCMP lay many charges. In every incident that has any sort of criminal connotation, charges are laid. Countries such as New Zealand, Australia and even England are taking new approaches to deal with youth offenders in a casual, restorative way.
Is this recognized? Do you think there is a movement toward this new approach?
Senator Carney: I do not understand Senator Sibbeston's question.
Senator Sibbeston: I was saying that in Canada there are many charges laid and we depend on the court system to deal with offenders. We charge people with criminal offences much more often than they do in countries such as Australia and England. I do not know how we compare to the United States.
With the recent changes to the Criminal Code to deal with the youth offenders through justice committees and so forth, there must be a movement toward laying fewer charges and to dealing with people in a better way than putting them through the court system.
Ms Burr: I agree with everything Ms Franklin said. The Department of the Solicitor General is very interested in the potential that restorative justice measures offer to improve the justice system. There is no doubt that there are many things that need improving.
One of the delicate issues that comes into play is the fact that there are usually victims as well as offenders in any case. The process is that the charge is laid and then a decision is made as to whether the case lends itself to a restorative justice process whereby the victim, as well as the offender, will at the end of the process feel a sense of closure. One of the weaknesses of the formal justice system is that quite often the victim feels that there is not much room for him or her in the process. Restorative justice is based on very fundamental attempts to come back into balance, if you will, but always mindful that this formal justice system is in the background.
I know that the RCMP do a lot of work with diversion with youth and I would like to ask Ms Franklin to talk about that.
Ms Franklin: As I have mentioned, our organization has been using restorative approaches since 1994. We have found them to be particularly effective with young people.
In answer to your question as to whether there is a movement toward laying fewer charges, yes, there is. I do not have statistics here to bear this out, but we know from our people in the field that they are using restorative justice. We have a special code that is used when a restorative approach has been used.
The Youth Criminal Justice Act requires that the police consider extra-judicial measures before laying a charge. This reinforces a practice that has been in place in our organization for some time. It consolidates and validates that and makes it a requirement.
There is also a requirement on our part to acknowledge that the work of the police officer is as valid when using a restorative approach as when laying a charge. That is something that we are also focussed on internally. That is to say, a constable who is being evaluated is being evaluated not on the number of charges that he lays but rather on the number of restorative approaches that he has taken.
Senator Christensen: Ms Wilson, in your presentation you said that Correctional Service of Canada tries to reintegrate Aboriginals into the community from the prison system. In urban areas, there is very often not a community. How is that handled?
Ms Wilson: We are working with the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples to do a survey of urban Aboriginal environments that might be receptive to taking offenders home. We have found it more successful to reintegrate Aboriginal offenders into Aboriginal communities where their networks of support are.
We also have approximately 23 Aboriginal-specific halfway houses, that is, houses that have contracts with Aboriginal organizations to provide community bed space. I believe that 18 of those 23 are within urban centres, so the major urban centres across Canada all have Aboriginal halfway house space.
One of our most successful healing lodges, the Stan Daniels Healing Centre, which is located in downtown Edmonton, is within an urban environment and has a longstanding history through the Native Counselling Services of Alberta of providing service to Aboriginal offenders.
There are some supports in place, but we need to do more to find other urban environments.
Senator Christensen: I was amazed at the number of programs you have. It might be helpful to the committee if the three of you could do a chart with all the programs so that we can get a matrix of what is out there. The programs appear to be unlimited. The chart would include the program, the department that is running it, who provides the major funding, whether the program is pre- or post-incarceration, what the target of the program is and, finally, on a scale of one to ten, how effective the program is. At the end of that, you could identify areas where you see gaps, where people are falling through the cracks.
Just as an observation — I admit to having bias, being an RCMP child and being raised in an RCMP post in the middle of nowhere in the Yukon in the 1930s and 1940s. I can probably count on one hand the number of charges my father laid in the 15 years we were there. He was seen more as a social figure, out there to assist people. I cannot remember a young person ever being charged with anything. Any charges that were laid were usually alcohol-related and they were minimal.
Then I fast-forward to when I was a justice in the juvenile courts. I would say that 99 per cent of the offenders appearing before my court were First Nations children. Usually I would consider them to be social delinquents as opposed to criminal delinquents. There was so much trauma. Most of the offenders had been in wardships as a result of dysfunctional families, due to alcohol and socially related issues.
There has been a major change. Perhaps we should look at going back as opposed to coming up with more sophisticated programs. I am not sure what the answer is. We are looking for some answers, certainly not all of them. We seem to be developing programs left and right.
Do you see a reduction of offences as a result of all these programs? Are you getting results? Is anything happening?
Ms Burr: The honest answer is no, but it is hard to measure what would have happened if we had not had some of those programs in place. This is the conundrum with evaluation. The three agencies and departments here today have discussions around what would make a difference.
We all feel we need better integration of the existing programs. We need Health Canada working with Indian Affairs, with the communities themselves, and with our own criminal justice providers. Often there is much going on, but people are not talking. The communities tell us this as well. They have the challenge of working with disparate groups. As well, we need to find ways to reach our provincial and territorial colleagues, and, in the case of urban youth, municipal partners as well. There is no one group that has a solution. We must find ways to work better together.
Senator Christensen: Is there a flash point out there? Is there a major danger with youth?
I would think that one signal of a major problem is a high suicide rate.
Ms Wilson: When I was working at the Assembly of First Nations, we had a general pulse of some of the First Nations. We used to keep an inventory of communities in crisis or potentially in crisis. At that time, there was Davis Inlet and some of the Northern Ontario communities with regard to suicide breakouts or that type of thing.
It was effective to start working with those communities before the crisis occurred, be it a crisis of suicide or another crisis that evolved.
Senator Pearson: With respect to program service, one of the challenges that we have when we offer a service is whom we involve when designing it. I did not hear you mention young people themselves on the advisory committees and in the community groups. Given the attraction of gangs and so on, which offers the sense of empowerment, recognition and a sense of belonging, I would be interested in what policy you might set down to implicate young people in the design of programs for young people.
In our hearings on the Youth Criminal Justice Act, one young Aboriginal person raised an issue about the fact that sometimes in urban centres the treatment for kids who have been drug-involved or substance-abused or sexually exploited would be to be sent to an Aboriginal treatment facility first, as they were Aboriginal. He said that for many kids this was not the solution they wanted. They wanted the best facility for drug addiction. They did not necessarily want one that was Aboriginally sensitive, as sometimes those ones got downgraded somewhat as facilities and were found in areas where some of these sexually exploited kids were particularly vulnerable. The centres were right there where their pimps were. That was not going to help them. Young people in difficulty may feel that they do not always want to be treated as Aboriginal but as young people in difficulty.
With respect to training, as it related to the gangs, it is of tremendous importance to understand the psychosocial dynamics of adolescence. They are not like the rest of us. In adolescence, there are phases that make adolescents behave, as I have observed so closely with my own family, neurotically. They must not be overreacted to and must be understood in the context of the young person's own development. Even the word ``service'' implies from us to you; the word ``program'' might be a slightly better word. I would be interested if you had some response to the involvement of young people in your planning.
Ms Franklin: I can speak from the police perspective. In my presentation, I gave short shrift to what I call youth engagement. In fact, that is an important part of our work and one that we are encouraging our members in their communities to do more of. Delivering a service to someone is not necessarily the way to go. We need the views of youth.
We have a variety of mechanisms in place now for soliciting the views of youth. One is occurring this week. We have 130 young people here in Ottawa for Encounters with Canada, as part of RCMP Week. These are young people, 15 to 17, who attend school. They will be exposed to many of the issues in the policing environment and in their own environment. We use this as an opportunity to gain their views as well.
In addition, we have sponsored two national youth gang forums, one in Montreal and the second in Winnipeg, which involved young people who had had gang experience. That is a specific and targeted consultation with young people precisely for the purpose of eliciting from them what would have made a difference, and what would make a difference now in those areas. That is when we come back to the issue of integration of services and programs so that an individual is not getting treatment for something and then going back to an environment that is not conducive to healing.
In terms of youth engagement, we are conscious of the need to consult with youth and appropriate mechanisms for doing that. Within the RCMP, I have received guidance from the commissioner's National Aboriginal Advisory Committee on how to do this, and also from youth themselves. There are different messages coming from the people who are giving us advice on this. One is that the situation of Aboriginal youth is such that it merits a distinct consultation process with Aboriginal youth.
Some Aboriginal youth have said they would prefer just to be treated as youth. Somewhere between those two realities our challenge is to consult with youth in a meaningful way nationally, at the divisional level and, most important, at the community level. I absolutely agree that the programs we develop need to be done so in close consultation with youth, the users of and eventual beneficiaries of those activities.
Ms Wilson: Regarding involvement of youth for the Correctional Service of Canada generally, our jurisdiction starts with 18 years and over. There is no youth advisory committee in that sense. We do not have many programs for those under 18.
I am often asked your other question as well: What about the Aboriginal offenders who are not interested in Aboriginal programs? We have a number of individuals who have not connected to their identity. They come into the population and they are not interested in participating in anything Aboriginal, spiritual or cultural, and that is fine. There is an abundance of mainstream services available to those who want to access non-Aboriginal services. As far as we are concerned, they should be listened to and empowered to participate in whatever kind of program they want.
[Translation]
Senator Gill: You remind me of social workers or those who end up with the results of a fairly sick society.
I am inclined to be indulgent toward you because there are programs which are responsible for the results you obtain. These results are steadily worsening; in fact, there are now more suicides.
I think you should change your statistics. Two weeks ago, in my community, an 11-year-old girl committed suicide and, in a reserve not far from my home, two young Aboriginals committed suicide. We have to pay attention. These events happen often in Aboriginal communities and we have a tendency to trivialize them. We tell ourselves that suicides are normal in an Aboriginal community. The problems of young Aboriginals are increasing.
Your retraining programs are just a bit of social assistance given to Aboriginals. Communities are receiving social assistance for about 70 or 80 per cent of their population.
You are at the other end of the tunnel and you notice these things. You are trying to do the best you can. The problem is not with your services, but elsewhere. You are trying to build retraining programs with the funds you receive. The phenomenon of criminal gangs did not use to exist in the communities but now, it does.
Your organizations evaluate and try to resolve these problems every day. Once the results are noted, what are you doing to increase awareness among those responsible for Indian Affairs programs, in the communities, band councils, provincial and national associations? Are statistics published to show that the results are not improving, but are worse than before? It is vital that we consider changing some programs from top to bottom in order to provide different management and administration.
You are a bit like pollsters. You are responsible for informing those who are a party to the problem. I am not just talking about Aboriginals but also those who deal with them. The situation is worsening all the time. I am one of those who want all programs, all services given to Aboriginals to be looked at from top to bottom starting with the Indian Act. We are still minors, under the law.
We want to recruit Aboriginals into the police and other services. We tell them to follow a two-year preparation program. This signal we are sending them is that they are inferior to others. It is not done maliciously. For those who succeed, thats fine. For those others to whom we say they are not ready to be part of this program, that they must prepare themselves and then join us later, that hurts psychologically.
There are many subtleties we must consider. Aboriginals do not consider themselves to be inferior beings. Culturally, Aboriginals are not inferior. But the signals that are sent demonstrate that they are not equal to other people.
Do you not think that, occasionally, programs could be used to inform those who have to make decisions and who are partly responsible for treatments for people who commit crimes, who prostitute themselves, and the results obtained? Could you present a public report of the statistics on crimes committed?
Ms Franklin: I would like to respond to your comments regarding our recruitment program and the question of a perception of inferiority. This is not the approach we use.
To be a member of the RCMP, certain skills are required. However, depending on the environment where an individual grew up, the opportunities for learning were perhaps limited. Sometimes it is just some simple training like, for example, learning to drive a car. The individual is not judged to be inferior, but the available opportunities for learning various things were not provided.
This program allows us to evaluate the individual and identify his/her potential abilities. The programs are tailored to the individual with the goal of developing skills that are lacking and that are required for recruitment into the police services, just like anyone else in any other community.
The people who took part in this program were very satisfied. This program gave them the opportunity to acquire training they would not have been able to obtain otherwise.
In the community, they have the same police status as their colleagues. As they have not had the opportunity to acquire these skills beforehand, this two-year period fills a void. The results are quite impressive.
Ms Burr: We agree with you about the quality of police services in the communities. The police are the last interveners on the social ladder, if you will. A greater integration of health and educational services is needed. Links with band councils must be strengthened. The police or the justice system are not the only source for solutions.
Current efforts may help to give the act more flexibility in dealing with Indians and may help resolve the fundamental problems in the Aboriginals communities by giving them more autonomy. This would resolve other major programs which you mentioned earlier. The criminal justice system is at the extreme end of the social system.
[English]
Ms Wilson: I like Senator Gill's question because one of the best indicators of results is number of offenders coming into the end of the system. We have success in getting offenders out; however, we cannot turn off the tap. It is the admissions statistics that are on the increase. I like Senator Gill's comment that the evil is somewhere else. It is the responsibility of Correctional Service of Canada to be an advocate and to articulate who we are getting into our system, why that is, and the interventions that could have been made. It is clear when talking about the characteristics of an Aboriginal offender the kind of interventions that could have been made along the way. If we were better integrated as departments, we would be able to do that more easily. If we developed an integrated federal-provincial- Aboriginal framework towards some type community-based, child and youth centred interventions and supports, it would be a good start.
Senator Gill: Are you satisfied with the information that you distribute to the public or to the others? Are you satisfied with the results? If not, what can we as senators do to help you? Many problems are a result of the fact that people are not informed or educated.
Ms Burr: In many of the discussions that federal public servants have now about finding ways to meet the commitment in the Speech from the Throne, when we get together, almost all of us would say that one of the most fundamental areas for investment and for greater attention is to focus on early childhood development and FAS-FAE, all those areas that deal with the most vulnerable in all of society, but certainly in Aboriginal communities, and that is the children from age zero to 6, perhaps even to 12. If we cannot find ways to reach out to those children, our agencies will be dealing with them later in life when they become involved with the criminal justice system.
Senator Cochrane: My whole approach would be the grass roots approach, and that starts right at the family. Personally, I think we have to get at the crux of where all this started. I am talking particularly about events that have gone on in my province, and I am looking at Davis Inlet. We have done many things with these children. We have sent them to centres in Winnipeg. We have spent millions of dollars there. They have come back, and we still have the same problems. They are still sniffing gas. There are still suicides.
We have then sent the children to St. John's, Newfoundland, and that did not work. They are back there, sniffing gas again, committing suicides.
We have to look at the family because many of these children come from families that are consuming a great deal of alcohol. They go out at night, leave the children alone when they are tiny, when they are babies, and no care is given to them. This goes on and on. I think we should start there.
One program that has worked in that area is a Salvation Army program that gets the children involved in hockey. They canvassed several groups, had a lot of hockey equipment donated, and it has worked. These are individuals within the community. This particular individual that I know is a Salvation Army minister, and he has done wonders with them. He has not gone to Davis Inlet, but he has done wonders with them in other places. These are the things I would like to look at.
I am also interested in the program you discussed with respect to family violence, the Aboriginal Nurses Association, and that started in 1999. In what regions is your centre affected with that problem?
Ms Franklin: The Aboriginal Nurses Association has been in existence for a number of years. Our partnership with them dates back to 1999. It was based on the reality that a nursing station is in many of the remote communities in which we are providing service.
What happened is that partnerships developed at the community level between police and the nursing professionals; they were dealing with the same clients on a number of issues, such as substance abuse and violence within the home and within the community. There is a strong working relationship that develops in the community. We have extended that to a partnership at the national level between our two organizations so that we may work strategically on certain issues. One issue that has come up is family violence within Aboriginal communities. We have collaborated on a research study, so neither of us owns the entire thing. This study is aimed at better equipping the nurses to deal with these situations and, on our part, better equipping the police to form those strong local partnerships with nurses in the communities.
In areas of family violence, we understand that, in some communities, women who are the victims of family violence may not report this to the police because of the desire that it not be treated through criminal channels. However, when it comes to the victim and the needs of the victim, the nurses are in a good position.
Senator Cochrane: Where are these centres set up? Are they mostly in the West?
Ms Franklin: Many of these centres are in Northern Canada. I am afraid I cannot give you too many specifics at the moment. I do not have the information on where they are located. However, I can certainly provide additional information from the Aboriginal Nurses Association for the committee, if that would be helpful.
Senator Cochrane: What about the White Stone program that you have for Aboriginal youth suicide? Tell me about that. You say that you have youth between the ages of 18 and 25 administering this program; is that correct?
Ms Franklin: This is a program we developed. I will provide some background.
The RCMP receives funding under the National Strategy for Community Safety and Crime Prevention. Money received is used for specific purposes, one of which is communities at risk. We have identified the issue of youth suicide as being a significant issue in many of our communities. We partnered with this organization, which is a non-profit arm of the Canadian Mental Health Association to develop a youth suicide prevention program, which grew out of one that was designed for adults.
This program does not intervene with young people who are on the brink of suicide. This is a complex issue involving health partners. This is a peer-helping-peer program. The program lasts about a week and is offered to people aged roughly 18 to 25. These are young, healthy people in the community who are in a position to influence their peer group. They are in a position to educate their peers, other young people, about suicide prevention and about the interventions that may be available within that community, if their community is at risk or is experiencing suicides.
This program is in its early stages, having been in place for about a year. We have done pilot workshops across the country, about five or six, I believe. As an adjunct to that, we have set up a contact network system through the Internet, so that people who have participated in this program can come together. They spend an intense week together and then they return to their communities where they are essentially working with young people. They do not really have a support system, so we have created an informal support network for them so that they may continue to keep in touch with one another.
The program has not been formally evaluated yet. That is what we will look at next, to determine whether the program is having an impact in positive ways in the community. Is the community better equipped to deal with incidents of suicide? I do not know what those indicators would be. We will be looking for expert advice on what those indicators would be.
Senator Cochrane: The suicide age group has changed. Many suicides involve children aged 10, 11 and 12 years old. They are not 18; they are young kids.
Ms Franklin: The people we work with are youth, but the idea is that they would go into the communities and work with children and young people in their communities.
Senator Cochrane: The age group must be looked at. We must look at the young ones, as well.
Among Aboriginals, men overwhelmingly commit crime. However, Aboriginal women account for almost one quarter of the female inmate population. Why is there this difference? Do you have any programs that directly target young Aboriginal women?
Ms Wilson: The difference is attributed to the smaller number of female offenders that are incarcerated. There are approximately 300 Aboriginal female offenders overall, so statistically the number is larger. Your figures are correct.
In regard to programs that are specific to Aboriginal women offenders, we have a healing lodge that is specifically for Aboriginal women, in Saskatchewan, with a bed space of approximately 31 at present. There are a number of specific programs in female institutions that are directed to Aboriginal women, mainly in Edmonton.
There are five regional facilities for women across Canada. In each of those facilities, there is some type of cultural program offered to Aboriginal women, such as elders, native liaisons and core Aboriginal services.
The Chairman: In regard to young Aboriginal women, the population in the Edmonton young offender centre is increasing drastically for young Aboriginal women. That concerns many of us. Our young women are now becoming more violent. It is interesting to note the violent crimes that they are involved with. It is scary. The ages of 12 to 17 years is where we must start looking at what is happening with our young women. It is sad. That is just a comment.
Senator Hubley: What happens to the children of women who are incarcerated? Is there any program designed to maintain the family, even though the mother may be incarcerated or the father? Is there an attempt to maintain that family unit, if it exists?
Ms Wilson: Incarcerated Aboriginal women tell us that the most hurtful thing about being incarcerated is losing their children and being away from their children. Nothing is more devastating.
In many cases, if there is not a family member to take care of their kids when they are incarcerated, the children go into the child welfare system. However, at the Okimaw Ohci Healing Lodge, there is a mother-child program. At this point, it is the only federal facility where children reside with their mothers. They have a day care and many other services.
When a female offender is pregnant or has small children, they do reside with her in a very supportive and nurturing environment. The female offenders all volunteer at the day care centre and reside with their children right in their rooms.
Senator Johnson: I have been on this committee for almost 10 years, during which time we have done many studies. I am from Winnipeg where I grew up with this situation as it evolved, particularly in the last 20 years during which the Aboriginal population has increased to 100,000 people of a population of 600,000.
Incarceration rates have risen dramatically, 16 per cent in the last five years. In Manitoba, 69 per cent of youth admissions in remand are Aboriginal, 90 per cent of which are male.
Of all the programs we have utilized over the year, what, in your opinion, has been the best program? In 1980, we had a program in Winnipeg called Maternal and Child Health. Its goal was to improve the health of mothers moving into the cities. The funding did not last.
We all talk about community-based programming, which is where it must start. When we cannot succeed at that level, we must rely on the Troy Ruperts of this world, the Winnipeg Native Alliance and other such organizations.
I sometimes get very frustrated. My colleagues and I have discussed this as our study proceeds. We want this study to result in some very positive things, not just negatives.
Tell me what you think are the key issues. You have a lot of experience. I read an article in which Ms Wilson talked about demography, socio-economic problems and cultural differences.
Tell us where you think we should be focusing and where you think you should be going.
Ms Wilson: The programs that Correctional Service of Canada is working on are in the developmental stage rather than an evaluation stage, so I will not comment on those. They are alternatives to the mainstream correctional programs.
However, based on all the research and pilot projects that we have done throughout the years, I can say that the healing process is more effective than anything. We have approximately 75 elders either on contract or employed with Correctional Service of Canada and this is the approach they use. This is where we have been meeting success and this is why the programs and initiatives have been expanded in a way that supports healing in an Aboriginal context.
Ms Burr: I cannot comment knowledgeably on the variety of programs that are in place in Winnipeg. I know there are quite a few.
Senator Johnson: I am not talking only about Winnipeg. I am asking nationally in terms of our study. We are trying to do something concrete and positive.
Mr. Baldwin: Many of the programs with which the Department of the Solicitor General is involved are community- based, so they tend to be in more remote communities. Although, as Senator Gill has pointed out, we do not always have perfect outcomes. We believe that having a First Nation policing presence, be it RCMP-run or self-administered, helps to create an atmosphere of public safety. I think you could extrapolate from that to say that in an urban setting you need to feel safe in your community.
To reinforce what Ms Wilson has said, the programs and projects we have been involved in on the Aboriginal corrections side all have a strong emphasis on healing, which means that the community comes together to discuss its problems and to learn together how to move forward. We have discovered that you must have that community involvement, that you cannot impose things from outside. It must involve the community member, be it a First Nations community or in an urban setting.
Ms Franklin: From the perspective of the police, I would echo those comments; however, I would like to add something about the issue of community capacity. It is clear from our work that no one program is the magic bullet. We are trying to reinforce within our own organization that we are looking at longer-term support to certain members of our society who need it in an integrated fashion. If you do something successfully for two years but it is not sustainable, then what have you achieved?
The police role in the early period of a child's life is limited. It is not our specific mandate, and this is where we are stressing partnerships with other community members. We have heard that theme echoed here this morning. The needs of the individual, the child, must be addressed. By the time the police come into contact with a young person at the age of 12, they are usually known to the police and social service agencies in advance. The police themselves know that a criminal justice intervention is not usually the most effective solution, that support for the family was needed much earlier.
Initiatives such as the Whitehorse Homelessness Initiative are promising. They focus on the needs of families so that families can support their own children. It is interesting to explore the police role in that kind of community-based partnership. Clearly, some communities do not now have the capacity to sustain the support that is needed for children to develop in a way that keeps them out of the justice system, either as victims or as offenders. We do have some promising demonstrations underway that show how agencies can work together with a longer-term view of the needs of the family. We expect that the results will be shown in the healthy development of the children and, eventually, reduced contact between young people and the police.
The Chairman: I thank you very much for a very interesting presentation. We have had lot of good, open discussion. As you have said, to become a better society for Aboriginal youth we need holistic healing, community involvement, community partnerships and family involvement, and that is exactly what our circle says. If we follow the circle, we will make inroads.
The committee adjourned.