Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Aboriginal Peoples
Issue 21 - Evidence
OTTAWA, Tuesday, June 4, 2002
The Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples met this day at 9:07 a.m. to examine access, provision and delivery of services, policy and jurisdictional issues, employment and education, access to economic opportunities, youth participation and empowerment, and other related matters.
Senator Thelma J. Chalifoux (Chairman) in the Chair.
[English]
The Chairman: I welcome you to today's meeting on this important action plan for change. As I have said many times before, I do not think we need another study; however, we do need to listen and to hear the communities, the agencies and the people on this important issue of urban Aboriginals, especially dealing with our youth. This is what we will do this morning.
Our first witness, Ms Kukdookaa Terri Brown from the Native Women's Association of Canada, will present a strong message about her concerns for young Aboriginal women, in particular.
Ms Brown, please proceed.
Ms Kukdookaa Terri Brown, President, Native Women's Association of Canada: Thank you for the invitation to participate in this hearing on urban Aboriginal youth. The time is critical to address the needs of an important sector of our society in a holistic and integrated manner. Greetings from the Native Women's Association of Canada.
The Native Women's Association of Canada, NWAC, is a national body of provincial, territorial and Aboriginal women's groups that works toward empowering women by being involved in developing and changing legislation that affects the lives of Aboriginal women. We also work to foster participation in a national dialogue that creates a space for the full participation of Aboriginal women and youth in Canadian society.
The majority of our presentation today will address the challenges faced by female Aboriginal youth. While we will highlight the many challenges and barriers faced by Aboriginal females, we want to acknowledge that many young Aboriginal women are role models, businesswomen, scholars, artists, writers and mothers with careers, vision and knowledge.
The current reality is that two thirds of Aboriginal Canadians are under the age of 25, with the highest concentration in the Prairie provinces. Aboriginal youth are overrepresented in all statistical data that reflects a reality that is neither hopeful nor fair.
We need to regain the vitality and resilience of our youth, if we want to build healthy communities, families and people. Our Aboriginal communities, both on-reserve and off-reserve, must invest in developing young leaders with a solid understanding of our values, customs, languages and governance structures. We must also acknowledge that Aboriginal youth represent a diverse population with different issues, concerns and cultural backgrounds.
Aboriginal women are doubly disadvantaged in Canadian society because of their race and gender. Aboriginal women are the poorest of the poor. Because of this, they require the immediate attention of federal, provincial and Aboriginal governments. Aboriginal women's status can only be understood in the context of a range of determinants, including socio-economic status, education and employment conditions, social support networks, physical environment, healthy child development, and access to health services.
The lack of culture and traditions of Aboriginal peoples experienced by dislocated Aboriginal youth allows for the adoption of reduced standards of appropriate norms and values with respect to the roles of Aboriginal women and, in particular, young women. Women are no longer viewed as leaders of the community to be respected for their ability to give life. Young women no longer follow life-stage teachings on how to be a woman and the value and sacredness of a woman's body. This is the foundation of a woman's self-esteem and her understanding of her role within our societies. We must incorporate our elders into this process of community building.
It is often the case that young Aboriginal women are deprived of an initial good start in terms of education and life skills because of poverty, sexual abuse, discrimination and lack of training, all of which leave women in a vicious cycle of low-paying jobs, abuse, addiction, prostitution, jail, poor health and limited options.
When we talk of ``migration'' to urban centres, we need to better reflect that process by naming it ``dislocation.'' Young Aboriginal women move to cities for reasons differing from their male counterparts. Young Aboriginal females are at epidemic risk of being sexually molested or interfered with by the age of 12. The incidence of incest, inappropriate touch, molestation and rape is such a common factor within the Aboriginal female population and an almost accepted reality that reporting is less frequent than for other populations.
One of the biggest problems in Aboriginal homes and communities is the lack of qualitative sex education. Aboriginal children and youth are desperately in need of solid sex education. A concrete result is the high rates of Aboriginal teen pregnancy, with many babies born with health problems and often taken into the foster care system.
Many young Aboriginal women dislocating from reserve to urban centres are financially unstable and without positive frames of reference for themselves. This instability and lack of opportunity for employment and education result in women becoming vulnerable and involved in the criminal subculture.
With the lack of social cohesion based on common family, community and shared values, many youth develop their own sense of self through the formation of gangs. Aboriginal youth are looking for someone to connect with and a gang of Aboriginal youth provides a safe place. Shared culture, racial experience and other forms of oppression lead them to find a family within the urban centre through the gang. A sense of exclusion based on race and income are common factors that lead to the sustenance of gang culture and activity.
The shame of being associated with a criminal subculture or prostitution prevents women from returning to the reserve. Many develop methods of coping with the dislocation and resulting issues such as HIV, children in care, unbalanced mental health, and addictions that fuel dependence on illegal work.
In the process, female Aboriginal youth are lead into the sex trade, often with tragic consequences. We are all well aware of the missing women in Vancouver and in Saskatoon and all those who remain unreported — all prostitution and a large percentage Aboriginal. This is what happens when Aboriginal females are allowed to fall through the social safety net, when social policy does not meet everyone's rights because they do not have an address or a job, cannot access child care in order to access training or a diploma or even to see a doctor.
The health of young Aboriginal females is also compromised. When we look at some statistics, the landscape is bleak. The current health status of Aboriginal women has been chronicled in a number of reports. The Health Canada Women's Health Bureau provides a concise and succinct summary of the current health realities of aboriginal women. Life expectancy for Aboriginal women is 76.2 years versus 81 for non-Aboriginal women. Aboriginal women experience higher rates of circulatory problems, respiratory problems, diabetes, hypertension and cancer of the cervix than the rest of the general female population. Current evidence shows that diabetes is three times as prevalent in Aboriginal communities than in the general population. Most Aboriginal diabetics are women, approximately two to one to that of Aboriginal men.
There is a higher percentage of HIV among Aboriginal women than non-Aboriginal women — 15.9 per cent versus 7 per cent. Fifty per cent of Aboriginal females who contract AIDS do so through intravenous drug use, in comparison to 17 per cent of all female cases.
The birth rate among Aboriginal women is twice that of the overall Canadian population. Fifty-five per cent of Aboriginal mothers are under the age of 25, versus 28 per cent for the non-Aboriginal population; 9 per cent are under 18 years of age, versus 1 per cent for the non-Aboriginal population.
The mortality rate due to violence for Aboriginal women is three times the rate experienced by all other Canadian women. For Aboriginal women in the age category of 25 to 44, the rate is five times that for all other Canadian women. Women are often the victims of family dysfunction, which results from alcohol or substance abuse. Hospital admissions for alcohol-related accidents are three times higher among Aboriginal females than they are for the general Canadian population.
Greater than 50 per cent of Aboriginal people view alcohol abuse as a social problem in their communities. Fetal alcohol syndrome and fetal alcohol effects have emerged as a health and social concern in some First Nations and Inuit communities. Suicide rates remain consistently higher for the Aboriginal population than the general Canadian population as a whole, in almost every age category. Over a five-year span, from 1989 to 1993, Aboriginal women were more than three times as likely to commit suicide than non-Aboriginal women.
The Native Women's Association of Canada wishes to make the following recommendations. The first recommendation is to provide adequate and sustained long-term funding to Aboriginal organizations within urban settings to assist in program design, development, implementation and delivery for Aboriginal youth.
Second, devise promotional campaigns related to positive self-esteem that are part of a regular advertising and media programming. To date, we can only see ourselves portrayed positively on APTN and not the larger mainstream media.
Third, develop and deliver educational programs geared to Aboriginal youth. These programs should be culturally sensitive to learning styles and should assist in addressing the rate of expulsion or dropout of Aboriginal youth from regular school systems.
Fourth, a population health approach must be put in place, an approach that considers the total environment within which Aboriginal women's health is realized. Income and social status, social support networks, education, physical surroundings, biological and genetic makeup, child development and health services are key elements to this approach. NWAC adds that this must be done within a contextual framework that acknowledges the continuing oppression of Aboriginal peoples and the impact of colonization.
Fifth, a thorough examination of social policy is needed in order to address the holistic needs of Aboriginal youth who are not able to access basic living assistance and health support structures.
Sixth, NWAC would like to see a more focused effort on the educational policy for Aboriginal youth who live in urban centres. As well, given that Aboriginals have a much higher proportion of young workers than the general population, we would like to see aggressive action taken to promote the hiring of Aboriginal youth who reside in urban settings.
Seventh, bring Aboriginal youth into the development process so as to create an atmosphere of ownership rather than the imposition of a concept or program for their benefit.
Finally, we must engage Aboriginal youth in dialogue. They know their reality best and can articulate their needs most effectively. Our youth are our future. Without our youth, we have no future. It is critical at this stage, because of the high rate of suicide and addiction, in addition to all the social problems I mentioned, for action to be taken immediately because people are dying in the streets of poverty and in social conditions that are deplorable and an embarrassment to the world.
This is our land. We have lost it all and now we are losing our children. We have no future without putting in place policies that are proactive and positive for our youth. They should be able to benefit, like the rest of Canadian society, have good self-esteem, move into respectable, well-paying jobs, have children when they want to have children, marry when they want to marry, leave the workforce when they want to and, most of all, be respected by people.
That respect is critical. The racism they face daily diminishes their view of themselves and erodes their sensibility; they become disillusioned and move into areas of which they are ashamed. We want to help them and tell them that there is no need to be ashamed because the oppression has affected us all.
I would be pleased to answer questions at this time.
The Chairman: That was most interesting and insightful. I appreciate the recommendations your organization has given to this committee. Those recommendations are crucial, if we are to address the needs of the Aboriginal community.
Senator Pearson: As I hear the unhappy recital of difficulties, I am trying to envisage practical, hands-on ideas. Could you describe a situation within an Aboriginal community where the young people are being empowered rather than disillusioned by what is happening? Do you have any practical experience? We are looking at things that work. We want to recommend some good models and practices that work in the community.
Ms Marlene Larocque, Executive Director, Native Women's Association of Canada: I have an example of a program that is unfolding right now at the University of Saskatchewan, in its Indigenous Peoples program. The program is entitled Iskewak, which is the Cree word for women. Under that program, Aboriginal youth who live in Saskatoon, an urban setting, mentored with professional Aboriginal women. They are undertaking activities that foster their self- esteem and provide the basis of a lifestyle that leads to participation in society and in the economy and gives them a different set of values.
Senator Pearson: One of the points you are making is the importance of mentoring; correct?
Ms Larocque: Exactly, especially by Aboriginal women.
Senator Pearson: That is an important thing that needs to be worked out.
All of us who have children and who have watched them grow up, along with our grandchildren, know that the challenge is to enhance the child within as well as the community outside, because it is the capacity of those young people to take charge of their own lives that becomes the important thing. Do you have some examples where you thought that was working successfully?
Ms Brown: In the Vancouver area, there are five youth groups that have been active in promoting a positive image for youth and in getting them into employment and training. The Vancouver Native Education Centre, which has been around for about 30 years, is a positive example. Their approach is holistic; they include spiritual teaching and traditional culture. Youth who attend the centre make all sorts of cultural items. They participate in drumming, and they become involved in singing and dancing, along with academic education, which has been successful.
Senator Pearson: I am interested in the question of working with very small children. We know that so much of the roots of self-confidence and the inherent sense of self starts in early childhood. Has the Aboriginal Head Start program, for example, a model that has been successful?
Ms Brown: Not specifically, but Head Start has been helpful to mothers. Greater than 50 per cent of Aboriginal families are headed by single mothers. Head Start was very beneficial in terms of providing nutrition and support to the mother and in preparing the children for school.
One to five years old is a critical age. It is important that there be longevity for organizations that provide services. Disruption of funding, a lack of funding and short-term funding all remain a problem for organizations. It is important for organizations to have long-term stability rather than short-term funding; otherwise, they experience total disruption every time they must engage in negotiations.
Senator Pearson: We know that the regular presence of a public heath nurse is one of the most successful ways of helping young families and children. Is that a model that is being used at all? The model that really works is a nurse who comes in before birth and continues to work with that family over a period of two years. Again, it is a question of continuity. This has been proved to be enormously beneficial in helping families work closely with their children. Is that a model that is used?
Ms Brown: The health centres work well in providing health support, and continuity is important. It is difficult for the centres to keep doctors and qualified staff. In the more remote parts of the country, there seems to be a new doctor every two weeks, so there is no continuity at all. Continuity is lacking.
Senator Christensen: Your first recommendation was to provide adequate and sustained long-term funding to Aboriginal organizations to assist in program design, development, evaluation and delivery for Aboriginal youth. How do you see that happening? Would the programs be delivered through friendship centres? Bands receive funding. However, as you are well aware, once people are wooed from the bands into urban settings, that funding does not follow. Obviously, that is a problem. How do we get to a point where we can get those kinds of programs into the urban areas, for example, through friendship centres? How do you see it happening?
Ms Brown: You mentioned the friendship centres. They are effective. Friendship centres are located across Canada, as are our offices. We receive funding, which we allocate to our regions. This is effective because it gets to the grassroots, where the money is needed and where they can provide their own programming. Women's organizations are seriously underfunded. Capacity must be increased.
Senator Christensen: You said that women are no longer viewed as respected leaders of the community. Why is that happening in the rural areas?
Ms Brown: The displacement of women under the Indian Act is a major reason. It has been happening over generations. Women are second-class citizens within our own communities because of the way the act is written and the way it discriminates against women. It does not honour the role of Aboriginal women, a role that was very significant in the past. Women participated in all areas, in the economic, political and social structures. Our role has been diminished; we are fighting to regain it.
Senator Hubley: One of the young women from the Native Women's Association of Canada who presented before us emphasized the importance of young people having input into organizations and being a part of them. In your organization, is there a youth representation?
Ms Jelena Golic, Youth Intervener, Native Women's Association of Canada: As a youth coordinator, one of my roles is to present the views of the youth council to the government.
Yes, our organization has a youth council, made up of a representative from each of our provincial and territorial regional offices. There is also a youth who represents us at the national level. This is our opportunity to lobby for certain issues.
Our council faces a funding challenge, which is a threat to the youth council. The youth council is a very effective means to fight for some issues.
In terms of the Native Women's Association of Canada, great importance is placed on youth, which is the next generation. For example, our youth program offers scholarships for young Aboriginal women. We are trying to put in place programs that will enable those young women to assume the position of the president of our organization, say, in the future. However, our youth council cannot be effective without adequate funding. In order to hold meeting, we require funding. It is not effective for us to be communicating via e-mail with each other, in an attempt to test some government initiative. Meeting in person is much more effective. This is a constant complaint.
When youth hear about a government initiative, they would like to be consulted. They would like to gather in a room to discuss the issue and to provide some input. That is important for youth. That is how we function best. We need to discuss issues. Sometimes it is difficult to consult with youth through one national organization. More direct input is what they would like, rather than just being told about government initiatives. Then they often ask: ``Who gave recommendations for that? Where did it come from?''
Senator Hubley: That was certainly the idea raised by the young ladies who presented before us. Given the unique needs of Aboriginal women living in Canadian major cities, should government consider different forms of assistance in programming? I am sure that you review programming that government has put in place with good intentions, but do you feel you have the input into those programs that is required to make it a successful program for Aboriginal women or youth?
Ms Brown: From my experience, we have not really had enough input. Normally, we hear about programs and policies after they have been developed. We do not have input from the very beginning. Many of the programs are problematic because the people who develop them neither work for us nor have an agenda similar to ours. In many instances, there are no checkpoints in place for an evaluation process, where we can be involved and say, ``This person is doing a great job,'' or ``We need some changes.''
In many case, we have program officers who are very ineffective. I am hoping that we can have some input into the people who deliver programs and services, because the attitudes of those people are critical as well.
Senator Sibbeston: You present a bleak picture. One part of me does not want to believe or admit that the situation is as bad as you indicate. I come from the Northwest Territories, where, while there are problems, the situation is not as bleak as you paint it for the rest of the country. I am not fully aware of the situation in the south and in urban areas, so I have to believe what you say.
While we may have problems in the Northwest Territories, we have been able to make a great deal of progress. Aboriginal people in the North are faring reasonably well because they are the majority, not the minority. They have been able to make inroads into all aspects of society, including government. Through land claims they have made progress, using the resources and money to become involved in the economic life of the North.
The picture you paint is bleak, as I said. How do you get out of the situation you portray? While I see that you recommend things like more funding and more promotional campaigns, is there any hope for Aboriginal peoples who move from the country to the city? That phenomenon is happening with native people moving from the reserves or rural areas to seek new lives and opportunity in the cities. What happens to people when they hit the city? Is there any hope? Some I suspect integrate in society and make their way, while others fall by the wayside. The things you talk about, such as prostitution and health problems, happen to people who do not cope well in the city and who are on the margins of city life.
I would be interested to hear from you your thoughts. What is the hope? What does our government or our society need to do to raise the state of Aboriginal women in particular so that they have a good and meaningful life?
One wants to improve the picture you paint. Our committee will try to make recommendations to government that will improve the lives of Aboriginal people, but it is difficult. Can we make any changes as a result of our recommendations? What needs to be done so that the lives of Aboriginal women in particular are improved?
Ms Brown: On the point about the bleakness, in a survey done in Yellowknife and carried out by one of our youth, we learned that approximately 80 per cent of the youth surveyed were engaged in prostitution or sex trade activities. There are many realities about which people do not know. Ignoring the facts does not change those realities. The facts are that we have high levels of the most serious social conditions in this country. We are not telling tales. We do not need to tell any. People have chosen to ignore us and to ignore the high statistics of violence and all the conditions that we experience as Aboriginal people.
With regard to what we can do to gain some hope, some of the recommendations are succinct and very good. If there is a commitment to follow the recommendations rather than sitting down and listening to us year after year and not taking the action, things will change. For example, it has been 35 years since we have had the dilemma of arguing with jurisdictional issues. That is a long time. There should have been change by now. We get tired of repeating this over and over and going on and on.
I would like to see some concrete work done right away rather than waiting for more studies, as Senator Chalifoux mentioned. We do not need more studies; we need money injected into the community to do effective work. We have been doing volunteer work for far too long. We cannot continue to carry our nations; we cannot continue to carry our men. They need to stand up. They may not be prepared for that, but we are prepared. We are prepared to move ahead and follow some of the recommendations, if the government could give us more money. We have very good ideas.
Senator Sibbeston: Some weeks ago, there was some news about women in British Columbia telling their men that they were more to blame than even the government in terms of the state of women. I do not know whether you recall that being said. I read it in the news.
While it is easy to blame government and society, how much of the problems are really internal to native society? Should the men who do not treat Aboriginal women very well accept any blame? Can you comment on what needs to be done in your own society rather than just blaming the government?
Ms Brown: There is much to be done. In terms of blame, we can blame the men. However, our people have a long history of oppression. They know nothing else in many cases. This experience is what they are reacting to in many cases.
The politics on reservations is a direct result of the legislation that governs our lives and land. In particular, it is dictated that we have to be in a specific location to gain benefits or to be regulated by certain acts. No one in the world is subject to that sort of oppression, aside from South Africa, which has been freed after so many years.
The politics on reservations drives women to urban settings. If we could stay in our homelands, I am sure we would. If there were services, a healthy community and our children were not at risk, we would stay. We come to the urban setting to get an education and to access opportunities for our children.
We seek the same things that other people do not have to leave their homelands to find. Other people are not forced off their homeland; they do not have to move 2,000 miles, in my case 5,000 miles, to get a job and an education. The closest university to my home is at least 1,500 miles away. One must relocate and leave everything behind to get an education. Other people do not have to do that.
Our youth are challenged because they are dislocated when they go away for training. In many cases, they get into the wrong crowd because they can be influenced in certain areas.
Let us talk about what oppression has done to us.
Senator Carney: I will follow the line of discussion started by Senator Sibbeston. First, has anyone explained the meaning of your first name?
Ms Brown: That is my traditional name, given to me at birth. We are given a few names, but this is my formal name.
Senator Carney: Where are you from?
Ms Brown: I am from northern British Columbia, near the Alaska Pan Handle. It is Taltan country.
Senator Carney: I want to ask you about Bill C-31 in relation to your views on oppression and legislation. I was a member of the House of Commons and one of the 16 women who pressured to have Bill C-31 passed, which restored status to Indian women who married off-reserve or married non-Aboriginal men. We now know that there are some flaws in the legislation that have led to some inequities for women, particularly in passing on status rights to their descendants.
Can you tell us what the impact of that bill has been and the personal interest in this? How might the legislation be changed?
Ms Brown: The move to urban areas has been a long legacy of the Indian Act. When Bill C-31 was enacted, it was viewed as a great victory for women.
Senator Carney: We thought so, until we found that we had not written it properly.
Ms Brown: A few generations later, we find that the discrimination is removed a couple generations. Again, we face the same issue of people being stripped of membership and benefits as Aboriginal people.
Senator Carney: Can you explain how that works? Can you give us an example of how it comes about that people lose their rights?
Ms Brown: Section 6 of the Indian Act relates to membership. Under section 6(1), a person has full benefits, including access to education, health, housing, everything that exists on the reserve.
Section 2 relates to partial benefits. It regards a blood quantum when someone marries out. A native woman who marries a non-native is still included. As well, her descendants are unaffected. However, if a descendant marries out, the children of that union get partial benefits. An individual who has a blood quantum of less than 25 per cent loses all rights. In that case, the descendants cannot inherit any part of the home. They lose all benefits.
Senator Carney: Can you explain to me what ``blood quantum'' means? I understand that it does not apply to men, but to women only.
Ms Brown: No, it applies to both now. In the old days, women who married out lost their status. When those women regained status, they did not regain 6(1) status. They were at a disadvantage. They did not regain full status. Thus, their children lost benefits quicker than they should have. They should have been reinstated to full status, which was not done.
Senator Carney: We are told that that created part of the migration problem. People went to urban centres because they did not have any rights to stay on their reserve; is that right?
Ms Brown: Yes.
Senator Carney: When you say ``married out,'' for the purposes of the record, what do you mean?
Ms Brown: I mean marrying a non-Aboriginal. There would not be a problem if an Aboriginal woman married an Aboriginal man. If an Aboriginal woman were to marry someone who was, say, 50 per cent or part Aboriginal, it would mean something different again.
Senator Carney: Who keeps track of the blood quantum? How do you do that?
Ms Brown: Robert Nault.
Senator Carney: I know that the band councils determine membership. We are told that there are some First Nations whose membership is being very narrowly constricted through the generations. Some may actually disappear because of this application of this law. That is why I ask how it works.
Ms Brown: There is quite a cumbersome process when children are born. In the wake of the act, a woman has to provide proof of the father of her child. In many cases, the father may not be around to sign the certificate, in turn putting the children at risk. It is now incumbent on a father to sign a form saying that he agrees that the child of the union should be a member of either his band or the mother's. Much of the determination still remains in the father's control. A man can agree to sign the form or not.
The records are all kept by Indian Affairs. Many forms are involved. Birth certificates must be provided. I have heard that in certain cases DNA testing has been done.
Senator Carney: If a child were born into the section 6(2) category, he or she would receive partial benefits; correct?
Ms Brown: Right.
Senator Carney: At some point, that child have to leave the reserve because he or she would not qualify for particular benefits; correct?
Ms Brown: Right.
Senator Carney: In terms of some of these changes, are you participating in the review of the Indian Act by the minister? Is your organization actively participating in that process?
Ms Brown: We applied to participate, but we were not approved for any funding.
Senator Carney: To whom did you apply?
Ms Brown: We applied to Indian and Northern Affairs. Our proposal was not approved.
Senator Carney: Can you explain why? We know that some organizations are boycotting the consultation process established by the minister.
Ms Brown: Initially, we did not call it a boycott, but we were clearly aligned with the Assembly of First Nations last year at the conference in Halifax. We had a very difficult time with our membership because of some lack of understanding. We could not decide to go to with the government's initiative at that point.
We asked for a three-month period of time to think about what we wanted to do. The AFN was boycotting then, and we were aligned with them. Indian and Northern Affairs misunderstood what we wanted; they thought we were totally opting out, which we were not. We wanted to have further discussions with our membership, to ascertain a clearer objective.
The department became disgruntled with us, because they wanted to enter into an agreement. However, we did not agree with the conditions, which did not address women's issues — matrimonial property rights, nationhood. The initiative did not address those issues.
Senator Carney: Who is ``they''?
Ms Brown: The department, Robert Nault's ministry. The department was talking about three key areas: accountability, legal entity of the nation, and a third one.
In our opinion, they were not talking about women's issues. We wanted the issues we were talking about put on the table, but they were not prepared to do that. We said we wanted three months to think about things. They misinterpreted our meaning.
Following that, the National Aboriginal Women's Association was formed. I was elected in October. This new group was funded with the money that we were expecting to get or had anticipated getting to move ahead.
Senator Carney: What is your present plan? A review of the Indian Act is taking place, and this committee will be part of that at some point. The issues are important and are of interest to you, but I do not see how you will be able to participate in these key issues without funding.
Ms Brown: We have not been involved in their committees or any issues like that because we have not had the money to do so. We are still of the opinion that they are not talking about the key women's issues. They are talking about accountability.
Senator Carney: What about AFN? How can you work through them?
Ms Brown: I have had discussions with various women chiefs, and we keep in touch that way, but of course their funding has been cut because of their political position as well.
Senator Carney: You are suggesting to this committee that, in the review of the Indian Act, the department and the AFN are not interested in women's issues. This committee is dealing with women and youth issues. That is an important omission or oversight.
Ms Brown: That is right.
Senator Carney: I would like to explore, perhaps with other witnesses, why women's issues are not being addressed in the proposed changes to the Indian Act.
Ms Brown: The initiative itself is viewed as problematic.
Senator Carney: What does that mean?
Ms Brown: Under their agenda, they are dealing with accountability and legal issues. I do not know particularly what their agenda is, but we can make assumptions on why they wanted to focus on accountability. Was it to dismantle? Was it to affect the leadership or to undermine it? I do not know. They did not have our agenda at the heart of any of the issues.
Senator Carney: Chair, I would ask what this committee can do or how we can assist to ensure that these issues affecting women are incorporated in the Indian Act or the proposed review of the legislation.
Ms Brown: One thing we would like to do is to an extensive research project on Bill C-31, 20 years later, to determine the impacts of it. That has not been done, to my knowledge.
Senator Carney: We have asked the department repeatedly for information on this; if any information exists, it certainly has never been presented to my office.
Ms Brown: I have asked for meetings with Minister Nault, and I have not been successful. I have lobbied ministers on various issues. It is important for us to have some people on side to lobby in Parliament for us, because we have all sorts of issues.
Senator Carney: What is the position of the Minister of State, Ethel Blondin-Andrew?
Ms Brown: We have met with her, and she is supportive of us. I cannot say specifically what her position is, but she has been supportive. Our organization is 27 years old. We have been around a while, and she is supportive of our organization.
The Chairman: It is my understanding that the proposed governance act and the proposed legislation regarding the amendments to the Indian Act will be coming to this committee, at which time we can address many of these issues.
Have you seen any of the drafts of the amendments that are being proposed?
Ms Brown: We have not received them.
The Chairman: I understand that the minister is tabling the proposed amendments within the next two weeks in the House of Commons. I would suggest that you keep track of that.
Senator Léger: I loved your statements: ``This is our land. We have lost it all and now we are losing our children.'' Thank you for saying that.
Where are the powerful women and the strong mothers? You said you have had success with the Head Start Program and the University of Saskatchewan. You mentioned the friendship centres and scholarships. Is enough money being given to you, or are there enough projects to promote the success of your women?
On March 8, in Fredericton, the lieutenant-governor invited some women to attend an event, to celebrate Women's Day. A woman from Big Cove attended. She was just like us. She began talking. She said she had six daughters and was very proud of them. Toward the end, she told us she also had six sons. Here was a mother, an ordinary woman, who was very powerful.
Are you receiving funding to enable you to tell these stories, to talk about women like the one I met and about your customs? Are any projects underway that tell us about your success stories?
Our way of telling stories and being awarded is Hollywood, television and movies.
Ms Brown: There are a few awards given out throughout the different regions. However, it would be a good idea award people for their successes, as you mentioned. It does sound bleak; however, there are women who are successful in parenting, in business, in politics and in other areas.
Senator Léger: It would be important to tell these stories in the urban areas, because in a sense you have an audience there. Your people are there.
Can you think of any projects that could be created where the emphasis would be on saying it your way? I am pretty sure we would want to hear it.
Ms Brown: Yes, that would be very helpful. We do not have the money, though.
Senator Léger: I think projects should be undertaken, because there are extraordinary people whose stories should be told.
Ms Larocque: The mentoring project at the University of Saskatchewan worked for more than a year to get funding. It was hard to access federal funding because the project was limited in the scope of what it could do. Had we chosen to help homeless Aboriginal women, we could have received a lot of money.
We need to ask young Aboriginal women the critical question of what made a difference in making the choice of a particular lifestyle.
Senator Léger: That is most interesting. We do not have enough money; we are all aware of that. I am not diminishing the importance of dealing with homelessness; however, projects like the ones I am suggesting lead to an understanding of the issues.
Senator Gill: You said in your presentation that you have been repeating yourself for 30 or 35 years, trying to express the needs with little success thus far. We have been hearing that from everyone. I am not talking about money; I am talking about something else. Why is it that you have to repeat the same things year after year?
Ms Brown: It is apparent to me that there does not seem to be the commitment or the political will to get at the real issues. We may see proposed changes in the Speech from the Throne or something around an election, but the will then dwindles. We need to sit down and make a commitment to each other that we will work this through. It has been a lengthy process, yes.
Senator Gill: Do you feel that it is a lack of willingness on the part of the government, or is it because the people responsible do not understand what is happening on the reserve with women? Is it a lack of knowledge, a lack of respect?
Ms Brown: It is part of all those things. A committed partnership would make a difference. When you talk about the knowledge and the training, the capacity is not there. Poor people do not have a lot of energy or resources to be at your doorstep pressuring you all the time. We do not have the resources to be on your doorstep nor do we have an extensive lobbying strategy. At times we have resources; at other times we do not. It is inconsistent. There are many factors.
Senator Gill: Young people are moving to urban centres across the country. Are youth returning to their community? So many are leaving and perhaps not returning. Why is that?
Ms Brown: The conditions on the reservations are not ideal. If they want opportunities, they need to move away in order to get training and education. A lot of times they do not go back. It is difficult to return once you have left a community because you may not want to live in that environment anymore. There may be varying conditions. When there is sexual abuse and so on, it is very difficult for these individuals. Communities are small. It is difficult to go back where there is incest, child abuse or if they have been rejected. There are many factors.
Ms Larocque: Speaking as someone who left and did not go back, there are many issues. There is a lack of opportunity, a lack housing. I cannot get my own house on the reserve; legislation prevents that from happening. My community is isolated; it is in northern Saskatchewan. An individual who is a teacher or a nurse can access the jobs on the reserve; if not, then one must be aligned with certain families to get a job. It is not conducive to young people going back. We go back to visit but not to live.
Senator Gill: Which would you prefer? Is the answer to your needs in an urban centre or on your reserve, in your environment and in your region?
Ms Larocque: I would prefer to see the building of healthy communities both on and off reserve, not necessarily for my needs but the needs of every community member. They are both beautiful places to live.
Ms Brown: Especially my hometown!
The Chairman: I should like to address the issue of discrimination toward youth within the urban centres. Have you done any studies? Have you experienced it? What is your opinion of discrimination within the urban centres?
Ms Brown: I know the Vancouver area best in terms of an urban setting. Many kids drop out of school at a very young age because there is a lot of discrimination within the school system. I experienced it when I was a youth and so have my children. It is ongoing. A lot of times Aboriginal youth feel they don't fit in. There may not necessarily be blatant racism, but there may be subtle forms of racism. For example, we do not hear about ourselves in history. We do not see positive images or hear positive stories about ourselves. Aboriginal youth are very displaced within the school system.
Concerning discrimination, a couple of Aboriginal youth in Vancouver were harassed, one so much so that she committed suicide. The other, a young man, was killed because he was harassed for many years within the school system. For too long that has been tolerated. There has been more awareness around that recently, but there was no Aboriginal spin on it. People do not know that there were Aboriginal children or young people involved in those incidents. The discrimination is blatant.
People are of two minds. In Toronto, there is an Aboriginal school. Some say it may not work. I believe that would be one way to go. People need not be forced into that sort of school system, but it should be an option for our children because many are not getting a proper education within the school system as it exists. There are many challenges.
The Chairman: You were reading my mind. Amiskwaciy Academy, which is an Aboriginal school, is located in Edmonton. I want to know your opinion regarding Aboriginal schooling.
There has been much discussion and debate about the academy, that it was promoting segregation, things like that. Throughout the West, in Alberta and B.C., there are French-immersion schools.
I should like to know your opinion on separate Aboriginal school systems.
Ms Brown: I am in favour of that because I have seen the struggles of children in the urban setting. Not everyone, however, would prefer that type of school. I have three children, all of whom have passed through the school system, and so I am aware of what happens there, especially in high school. It is a war zone. We want to eliminate that. There is a lot of gang activity. I am not saying, however, that that would not happen if we ran the schools.
There are some schools in B.C. as well, around the Mount Currie area, that have done well. All the teachers have degrees and they are all trained to deliver an effective curriculum. Not everyone would be in favour of that type of school, but it should be an option.
The Chairman: Once again, that brings me to the gang situation.
Do you know how prevalent female gang associations are? How is that affecting our young women, especially in Western Canada where there are many gangs?
Ms Brown: I do not know that there are gangs that are 100 per cent female. However, there is a high number of young Aboriginals being lured into gang activities. In the Vancouver area especially, I am very aware of the drug activity and the selling of drugs and prostitution.
Ms Larocque: Eventually, young Aboriginal women become involved in gangs as prostitutes; ultimately however, it is not really their own decision to get involved.
The Chairman: In another life, I was involved in the Edmonton Young Offenders Centre, where I did a great deal of volunteer work. It really disturbed me, the last time I was there, to see the increase in number of young female Aboriginals, many of whom had committed violent crimes. I am hearing about some of our young women beginning their own gangs and becoming involved in violent crimes. These girls are only 13 and 14 years old. It would be a good idea if there were some research and a study done on young women because it is of great concern to me, as an Aboriginal woman, to see our young women doing that.
I will be attending the convocation tomorrow at the University of Alberta, where many young Aboriginal women and men will graduate. We will see three Aboriginal doctors graduate tomorrow, so there is hope for the youth. Through strong women and organizations such as yours, we have much hope, but there is also much work to do.
Ms Larocque: It is extremely important to ask people who are graduating, especially the doctors, what made that difference in their choices and in their lifestyle.
The Chairman: That is a good idea.
Senator Christensen: We discussed today the question of money and the need for funding to strengthen programs and the education system to allow First Nations to understand their culture better and to be proud of their culture. These are two areas that consistently come forward.
We have examined the funding in a number of areas, and certainly there is much of it going out. How do we focus that funding? It seems to go to bands and major programs, but the smaller programs must obtain funding from either the bands or from the major programs. The money does not seem to filter down to those groups. The administration seems to eat it up; it does not go to where it should go, to help people.
How do we overcome that? There is a great deal of money going out, but it does not seem to get to where it is needed. How do we get it to where it is really needed, without creating a huge bureaucracy to accomplish that?
Ms Brown: Part of it is that, sometimes, the capacity to access the funds does not exist. Groups may not be aware of the resources and may not know how to access them in terms of proposal writing or administration. The capacity needs to be built. That would help to put the money where it is needed.
The only funding to which women's organizations have access from Indian and Northern Affairs is funding for the summer student program. We do not have access to any other funding. We are totally excluded and have not received any of it. Rather, the money goes to Indian bands living on-reserve. We do not qualify for any of that funding. Our main source of funding has been with HRDC, which provides employment programs, and Status of Women Canada.
Senator Christensen: Those are not native programs but general programs.
Ms Brown: There is Aboriginal funding within Status of Women Canada, which has been effective in supporting the autonomous women's organizations, which is key. The autonomous groups are much more focused and much more effective.
Senator Christensen: What would your recommendation be to deal with the education program? I would agree with you that a separate school system, perhaps, should be an option; however, it should not necessarily be the answer, because we would be getting into the whole problem of funding and providing people who can teach in those situations.
What would your recommendations be to bring into the school system, from a historical point of view, more of the information that is needed on the role that First Nations have played in North America and around the world?
Ms Brown: The history and the role of First Nations would help in many areas of young people's lives. It would be very beneficial if it were a key part of the school curriculum.
How would that be accomplished? There are many Aboriginal historians who can tell the real story, from our perspective. It is not necessarily the only story, but from our perspective, it would be important.
Senator Carney: I wish to talk about the educational issue; however, I want to clarify, for the record, that the focus of this study on urban Aboriginal youth includes the issues that lead to urban migration. In that context, Bill C-31 is a critical element, which is why I raised it. It is a factor in migration and it is a factor in Senator Sibbeston's important question; that is, how much of Aboriginal problems are internal to Aboriginal society?
It is extremely paternalistic, and even oppressive, of us to suggest that non-Aboriginal society holds all the answers to Aboriginal problems. We tend to sometimes think, in our line of questioning, that we reflect the concept that we can resolve all of the problems of the non-Aboriginal society. That is demeaning and incorrect. I want to put that on the record.
The chair of this committee will attend the convocation ceremony at the University of Alberta, and that is wonderful. This week, I will attend a ceremony established by the Vancouver school board at the grade 7 graduation level for all First Nation students to be assembled in one place, honoured, feasted and given certificates of achievement. The reason for that, I am told, is to fortify their sense of having achieved something by reaching grade 7 and to encourage them to continue their education. Your records indicate that two thirds of Aboriginal children not in school do not finish high school.
Ms Brown, are you familiar with that program? Is it worthwhile? Does it keep kids in school?
Ms Brown: It is a very good program. My kids participated in the Burnaby school board, which has a similar event. It has a very positive influence. They honoured the children and had a beautiful feast for them. They invited elders to attend the ceremony, and each of the children received an eagle feather, which is a high honour. The children were walking on air. The event featured awards for attendance, achievement, et cetera. It was for all grade 7 students. It was a very positive experience.
I spoke to a graduate from Terrace who described the events at the high school graduation as beautiful.
Senator Carney: These interim measures are ways to support the kids and to encourage them to continue with their education.
I wanted to mention that the reason I was asked to participate on that committee has to do with Canadian content, which is an expression of the fact that it is not only the Aboriginal communities that value Aboriginal youth but also a country called ``Canada'' that values them. Canada honours them and needs them.
Is that element helpful for students, to feel that there is a broader society in which they can participate?
Ms Brown: Yes. That is a very good message for them.
Senator Carney: That will give me more support when I give my speech.
What other measures can be taken to support the image of Aboriginal women in the school system? I know that you need role models, we all need role models, but is there anything else? You talk about advertising in the media, and so on, but what can you do internally? We could have Senator Léger's mother of six daughters, but what can you do internally in Aboriginal society to promote the self-esteem of women?
Ms Brown: What we have been talking about is the role of women in terms of the internal issues within our communities. Many of our communities come from matrilineal and matriarchal cultures, so the role of women has been displaced as there is no place for that within the Indian Act. I am embracing that kind of philosophy, or way of being. It would be important in re-establishing and strengthening our women's roles. That is key, because we have been mistreated and treated badly for far too long. Much of it stems from the Indian Act, where patriarchy began within our communities.
Senator Carney: What do you do within your association to bring young women into the political process and make them aware of these issues? I ask this because I find that — and I am told — older women think the status quo is all right because that is how they grew up, that is the way the world is. What do you do to help educate younger Aboriginal women, in the urban centres in particular, that there is a larger role to play, or is that beyond your resources at the moment?
Ms Brown: It is not totally beyond our resources, but it has been a struggle. There has been difficulty getting our youth council established. We have many youth working in our office, so it is important to have them in those mentorship roles with other women in leadership who are involved in our organization because we are very focused on particular issues and they would not necessarily hear that anywhere else.
For myself, there is not really an opportunity to do the work at the grassroots levels, to travel and meet these women and speak to them and engage in a dialogue. I am not sure that older women are more accepting. Perhaps we have not had that political discussion. Women are so involved in community, really supporting the community, looking after family, and supporting the whole social structure, that it has taken up all of their time.
Senator Carney: You mentioned discrimination in the Vancouver area and violence against Aboriginal youth. One of the high-profile cases in Vancouver right now involves the beating up of a non-Aboriginal young man by Aboriginal youth from Musqueam. That perpetuators of that crime were given light sentences, that is, house arrest. These are juveniles, not the adult who is before the courts.
Do you feel that a system that seems to deliver less punishment to Aboriginals vis-à-vis non-Aboriginals is helpful to Aboriginal society? There seems to be a feeling that Aboriginal youth who commit acts of violence, as in this case, are justified in receiving a less punitive sentence than they might if they were non-Aboriginals. As a matter of fact, that was part of the Senate amendments to the Criminal Youth Justice Act.
There are some Aboriginals who think this is not helpful, that telling Aboriginal youth they will get off lightly if they perpetuate crimes is not helpful to Aboriginal society. Do you have any personal views on that?
Ms Brown: We speak out against crime and violence in any form. We do not want to see that. Unfortunately, what racism and discrimination has produced is young people who are very angry and who have a lot of animosity and hatred.
This case is unusual, though. It is uncommon for Aboriginals to get off easy. Most Aboriginal people serve long sentences for menial crimes, compared to the other population, so I would not see that as very prevalent.
Senator Pearson: I want to pick up on your earlier comments about the issues of sex education. This is an important issue. It is also a challenging one, and not only in the Aboriginal community.
I have worked with Cherry Kingsley and the issues around the commercial sexual exploitation of children. It seems that healthy sexuality is something we should all teach our children. Do you have any examples from the Aboriginal community of approaching this issue in a healthy way in terms of education?
Ms Golic: From my discussions with our youth council members, I remember a discussion on this topic with one of our delegates from Nova Scotia who was talking about her particular school. It varies from school to school. I am not sure of any example from a particular community.
In contrast to some of our delegates from more remote areas such as Labrador, where they do not have access to sexual education and where there is a lack of pamphlets on sexual education, the Nova Scotia delegate I had a conversation with was telling me there are not enough of those. We all know how many pamphlets are produced. Youth in some of those remote areas do not have access to that information. The Nova Scotia delegate said that her school holds workshops and hands our pamphlets on sexual education. The topic is not treated as a big taboo in that delegate's school. She found it is useful for Aboriginal youth in urban areas as well. However, it depends from school to school.
That youth said that one of the ways to improve the situation in schools is to approach the student council and ask them to request that programs on sexual education be put on the curriculum. It is not easy to get career counselling courses into the curriculum; it is an even bigger challenge to get something on sexual education. Based on conversations I have had with our youth, however, sexual education is not always shut out of the curriculum. In some communities, in some schools, there is sexual education.
For our organization as a whole, youth are identifying teenage pregnancy as a big priority, especially in Edmonton at the National Aboriginal Youth Strategy Conference. She said that in her particular area teenage pregnancy is not a big problem because they have access to that. There are some positive examples.
Senator Pearson: That is good. Are you aware of the interesting workbook on sexuality produced by L'Association des femmes autochtones du Québec, AFAQ? I wish to bring that to the attention of our committee because it is quite a helpful resource. This is one of the issues that we need to look at seriously to determine what models would be good to share in our report.
Senator Léger: We were just speaking a minute ago about the history of native peoples and that it be passed on from your perspective, not from our perspective. Is this possible as a project? Currently in urban schools everywhere, where there are native peoples in the history class, there would be in the textbooks the history of native peoples. Should we recommend that Aboriginal history for all Canadians be included in school curriculae, and not just for Aboriginal peoples?
I think a project like that could be started immediately. Perhaps things are moving a bit faster these days because of all the work that has been done before. History courses could be implemented almost immediately, and they would be different in all the many areas of the country.
The Chairman: In light of the fact that this committee is about an action plan for change, what would be the two most important action plans for change, in your opinion, that this committee could examine?
Ms Brown: The issue of funding is of prime importance. People cannot organize, meet or contribute without funding. The second is with respect to the education of Aboriginal youth, to commit to keeping them in school so that they can become successful young people with high self-esteem and high hopes for the future like any other person in Canadian society.
Ms Larocque: It is hard to prioritize the recommendations. I would say that health, and sexual health in particular, for Aboriginal women is critical. Also of high importance is employment for Aboriginal youth; we need to see them working. I am from Saskatoon, originally, where there is a high population of Aboriginal youth in the malls. You do not see Aboriginal youth working at the mall, for example. It is important that they work and learn how to build leadership skills.
Ms Golic: The provision through youth centres of basic health services and mental health services is important. Aboriginal youth want and need somewhere to hang out and to spend time so that they are deterred form engaging in destructive behaviour. Centres of that kind would be important. There are some excellent centres now. It would be a challenge to try to fill those gaps, to assess the successful ones and ensure that they are distributed in different communities.
Post-secondary education is also important, to help Aboriginal youth achieve the success of their role models. Many say that they wish there were more scholarships for Aboriginal youth. I am aware of some, but again there is the problem of accessing them. Often there is not enough information about scholarship availability. Improvement in that area to ensure that Aboriginal youth know what is available to them would be extremely beneficial.
Aboriginal youth would like to see better coordination of health, education and employment issues. They are often interconnected. Take, for example, the situation of a pregnant teen who is unable to find work and falls into depression. The issues surrounding that teen involve health, education and employment. There needs to be better coordination of these things in the communities.
The Chairman: There are many Aboriginal organizations that have done a great deal of curriculum development. Nevertheless, the provinces whose departments are charged with putting curriculae into the schools have not accessed those. How would you see your organization negotiating and working with curriculum development departments within each province, because it is provincial jurisdiction? How would you see your organization working with them to encourage them and to ensure that this entire curriculum is raised?
One good example is in British Columbia where we did a curriculum development for the Prince George school division. At a workshop with the teachers, they told us that they had five or six very good curriculum programs sitting on the shelf. Could you see your organization working within that?
Ms Brown: Yes. We have many research projects and much information that we could contribute.
The Chairman: I would like to thank all of you for an insightful and informative session today.
Ms Brown: We came here expecting only a half-hour hearing. Thank you for spending so much time with us.
I want to dedicate this session to the young woman who was found in the Ottawa River the other day. That kind of tragedy has become far too common among our people — young women who are killed and who never have the opportunity to grow, to achieve their goals in life and to have their dreams fulfilled.
I also wish to dedicate this session to the missing women of Vancouver's Downtown Eastside. Of those missing, 60 per cent were young Aboriginal women. We want to keep that in focus. People will be at great risk if we do not take any action.
The committee adjourned.