Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration
Issue 5 - Evidence
OTTAWA, Thursday, June 13, 2002
The Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration met this day at 9:07 a.m.
Senator Richard H. Kroft (Chairman) in the Chair.
[English]
The Chairman: I would like to get underway. There may be some adjustment in the order of the items because some people who are required may not be here yet.
Senator Murray: We have a list of six or seven items here, and I noticed on the way in that the meeting was to be in camera. Is it necessary to have all of these items discussed in camera?
The Chairman: No.
Senator Murray: Which ones are to be discussed in camera?
The Chairman: Some items will be brought up under ``OtherBusiness'' that will be in camera. We will deal with items 4 and 5 in camera.
Senator Murray: The others will be dealt with in public?
The Chairman: Let me say before we begin that this will be the last meeting of the committee before the summer break. I would like to take a moment to make a few remarks and extend some appreciation. It has been a very busy time and we have tackled a lot of items.
I first want to thank Senator Atkins — I am sorry he is not here at the moment — who stepped in and took over when Senator DeWare left. Those were big shoes to fill.
Senator Forrestall: I will not tell her that you said that.
The Chairman: She knows how I feel about her. It was really a seamless change, and he was extraordinarily cooperative. We got on very well and dealt with a number of difficult issues very effectively, and I really have appreciated the support, as I have that of all members of the committee. We have had excellent attendance. We have had a high level of interest in the matters relating to the committee. It has not been an easy year, because a number of items that have arisen have been demanding. As always, there has been a range of views, but there has always been a high commitment to the interests of the Senate, and I have appreciated the support of the committee.
In particular, the subcommittees and their chairs have worked very effectively. Senator Kenny, Senator Furey and Senator Milne, in terms of senators' services, budgets and human resources, have all functioned effectively and taken the decisions required. They have covered the work and enabled this committee to be much more effective.
I should confirm and thank two unofficial committees that were formed in the last months of the session. One was the new group on artwork and heritage items for the buildings. It is underway and doing some things that I will talk about later. The communications advisory working group is also underway, and I am satisfied that both of them will perform a useful role for the Senate.
Finally, and perhaps most importantly, I thank the staff and the administration for the tremendous support that they give this committee. They give it to all committees, but this committee is inclined to casually make demands and requests that in fact involve huge amounts of work, and it is always presented in a timely and effective fashion, with enthusiasm and good spirits. I really want to extend my appreciation. One thing you realize from working on the budgets, particularly as compared to the other end of the building, is how much service and the quality of the work we get with relatively limited resources. I think the senators on this committee, in particular, are in a position to understand and appreciate that.
Just so we do not become lulled, keep in mind that while the summer lies ahead, we have a lot coming at us in the fall. We will instantly be into the issue of Supplementary Estimates, which will have major implications this year in carrying forward some of the issues not finalized now, let alone the Main Estimates. Particularly, the issues of security and broadcasting will be front and centre. When you are lying on the end of the dock or rolling around Southern France or Southern Saskatchewan, try to keep those things in mind.
With that said, I look for approval of the minutes of the meeting on Thursday, May 30, as circulated. Are there comments or questions?
Hon. Senators: Approved.
The Chairman: Approved, thank you.
The second item on the report is the subcommittee on finance and budgets.
Senator Stollery: Chairman, I am asking for the agreement of Internal to recommend to the Senate the release of funds for two new budgets submitted to the subcommittee. They are very straightforward.
Senator Murray appeared yesterday. He needs $10,000. We recommend the release of $10,000 to the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance for its new special study on the contract at the Goose Bay, Labrador airfield.
The second item is the release of $6,990 for the Joint Committee for the Scrutiny of Regulations for a conference in late September. The second item is basically automatic, because it is one of those things for which we pay our share, and the decision is, you might say, made for us. Senators should be aware that the amount requested by the Scrutiny Committee is in line with the amount that has been granted to other committees for conferences. As I say, there is really no way around that.
If the Senate releases these funds, there will be only $37,000 left of the $1.8 million budget for future contingencies, which sounds rather good, actually. We discussed yesterday the possibility of future requests, and the chances are that that may not happen.
I request the adoption of the 16th report, chairman.
The Chairman: Are there questions or discussion?
Senator Poulin: I move the adoption.
The Chairman: I do not hear any objection.
Next is item 3, tab 3, concerning the equipment-replacement plan for printing services. This is revisiting an item we dealt with last week, when information clarification was requested.
Mr. Serge Gourgue, Director, Senate Parliamentary Precinct Services: Last week, Senator Comeau asked a specific question about value for money. We asked for a review of the figures. In a nutshell, comparing the acquisition via cash payment with a lease, the difference remains basically the same, so roughly $300,000 in favour of buying the equipment instead of leasing it.
We are asking that the equipment be acquired this summer, because next year, we will be moving the entire printing services at 45 Sacré-Coeur, which used to be the Queen's Printer, in Hull. There will be a lot of logistics to deal with, and we want to train the staff on the new equipment, which takes us from analogue to digital. It takes time to train the staff, and we cannot afford to do it when we are sitting. The Senate depends on the printing services, and we have a very defined deadline for the printing equipment. Xerox Canada is the winner of the RFP. We have an opportunity to get the equipment now and choose the method of payment at the end of this fiscal year.
The Chairman: I understand Senator Comeau has had a chance to review this since the last meeting.
Senator Comeau: I would make one slight correction: My objection was not necessarily to the value for money, but I had a question about time value for money — in other words, bringing a future stream of dollars back to present value. I have had a discussion with Mr. Ranger, and he explained to me how they look at this issue in terms of the time value of money. Let us say I am not entirely satisfied with how government looks at time value of money, but I accept that this is how they do it. I am satisfied that I know how they do it.
The Chairman: At our next meeting, you can report on how you have changed the way government does this.
Senator Comeau: I will attempt to do so, sir.
The Chairman: Unless there are other questions or further discussion, I would look for a sign of consensus on this matter.
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: We move to tab 4, and we go in camera at this point.
The committee continued in camera.