Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Aboriginal Peoples
Issue 8 - Evidence - Morning session
WINNIPEG, Monday, March 17, 2003
The Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples met this day at 9:05 a.m. to study issues affecting urban Aboriginal youth in Canada and, in particular, to examine access, provision and delivery of services; policy and jurisdictional issues; employment and education; access to economic opportunities; youth participation and empowerment; and other related matters.
[English]
Senator Thelma J. Chalifoux (Chairman) in the Chair.
The Chairman: For the past 18 months, this committee has been holding hearings on issues affecting urban Aboriginal youth. These young people face unique challenges that require unique solutions. That is the goal of this committee, to develop an action plan for change.
As we all know, Aboriginal people have been studied to death. We do not need another study; we need an action plan for change, and to become partners with all of our agencies in order to address the serious issues facing our youth in the urban centres.
To that end, the committee has heard testimony from federal government officials, national Aboriginal leaders and those involved in service provision.
Here in Winnipeg, we begin the final phase of our work, hearing from those involved at the community and local level. We hope to hear about the challenges that have been faced and the successes that have been achieved, so that we can learn from each other's experience and ensure that our young people have the support that they need to succeed.
It is interesting that there are some statistics on Winnipeg. Winnipeg is the Canadian city with the largest Aboriginal population. According to the 1996 census, 62.7 per cent of Aboriginal people in Winnipeg live in poverty; 45 per cent live on an annual income of less than $10,000. That is deep poverty. Manitoba has the lowest rate of school attendance for Aboriginal youth of any province in Canada. These are the challenges that Manitoba is facing.
We are honoured this morning to begin our hearings in Winnipeg with the Grand Chief of the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs, Dennis White Bird, who is joined by Kathleen McKay, a representative of the Assembly's Youth Council.
Grand Chief Dennis White Bird, Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs: Welcome to Winnipeg to the Senate committee. I want to begin in the spirit of our culture, our tradition, and call on one of our young people here in the Province of Manitoba to present us with a prayer song.
(Prayer song)
Mr. White Bird: He is one of our youth from Winnipeg, Manitoba. He is a member of the Treaty #3 First Nation in Ontario. He will be graduating from the University of Manitoba in economics this spring. I want to thank him for the song that he has provided to us.
I also want to welcome Kathleen McKay, to my left here, who is the youth representative from Manitoba to the Assembly of First Nations. I also have with me Jason Whitford, who is a member of my staff at the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs. We have a number of youth sitting behind us, supporting us. We also have representatives from the Keewatin youth initiative. We also have the Children of the Earth School here with us in the audience. It is unfortunate that we cannot hear from them, but we will do the best we can to represent their interests.
As you have heard, the statistics are quite alarming and I think that we have to prepare ourselves for the future. One of the ways is to respond to the needs of our young people here in the province of Manitoba, particularly in the urban centre.
I have been involved with Mr. Whitford in trying to secure a centre — and it has been quite a challenge — that our young people can call home and where they can practice activities related to their culture and to recreation. We are still working on it. We have not received too much support from any government.
Good morning, and thank you for the opportunity to speak here today. I am very pleased to learn that the Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples is studying issues affecting urban Aboriginal youth in Canada, and in particular, examining access, provision and delivery of services, policy and jurisdictional issues, employment, education, access to economic opportunities, youth participation and empowerment, and other related issues.
The Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs Secretariat is a political advocacy body. It was established as a forum for a common voice to promote, preserve, protect and implement the interests and rights of all First Nations in Manitoba through political and socio-economic forms of advocacy.
First Nations or status Indians are one of the three Aboriginal peoples recognized in section 35 of Canada's Constitution Act of 1982. This section also recognizes existing and inherent Aboriginal and treaty rights of our First Nation people. Unfortunately, Canada's policies fall short of meeting its constitutional obligations, and this is demonstrated by the narrow policy or legislative focus that now exists for First Nation citizens. It is obvious that there is a need for fundamental institutional change overall.
Two years ago, the Canada West Foundation initiated the Urban Aboriginal Initiative, which was to identify key policy areas, explore policy options and alternatives, highlight promising practice ideas and promote dialogue about Aboriginal issues. The final report of the Urban Aboriginal Initiative that was released on February 13, 2003, made several recommendations to all levels of government.
One of the recommendations was that the federal government should redirect a portion of its Aboriginal program spending from reserves to urban areas, especially major cities, as the recent Statistics Canada survey suggests that 50.6 per cent of the Aboriginal population resides off reserve.
Clearly, this report ignores the reasons why First Nations move from their communities. Out-migration from the reserve communities has been largely driven by the shortage of services, including, but not limited to, housing, social programming, employment and infrastructure, limiting opportunities for First Nation people. This is due to the limited financial resources that our First Nation communities receive. A proper review, based on a needs-based budget, would indicate that additional resources are needed just to meet minimum standards that First Nation counterparts enjoy within provincial authorities through the Social Union Framework Agreement.
Unfortunately, First Nations under the Indian Act do not receive funding for programs and services for off-reserve members, although we are politically accountable to off-reserve members.
Decisions made by the Supreme Court of Canada, Corbiere, Delgamuukw and Musqueam, helped to clarify and reaffirm the responsibilities of a band to their off-reserve membership. These decisions also support the position of First Nations on the portability of treaty and inherent rights of their people and of First Nation governments.
First Nation communities have had little in the way of resources to support those community members forced into the transition to urban life. The isolation from services of off-reserve First Nations is not something designed by First Nations. It is contrary to First Nation interests, tradition and policy. First Nations want to do so much more to support their members, sustain their larger community and strengthen social and cultural bonds.
The transition from reserves to metropolitan areas can be similar to migrating to Canada from another country, yet the Government of Canada does not fund transition programs for First Nation people to the extent that it funds new immigrants to Canada. For every dollar spent on urban Aboriginal transition programs, 20 are spent on immigrant transition and settlement.
One of the biggest struggles for many First Nation people is maintaining their cultural identity. Crossing the city limits does not transform First Nation people into non-First Nation people. They go on being the particular people they have always been — Cree, Dene, Oji-Cree, Ojibway, and Dakota.
The struggle for First Nation people to express their First Nations' identity and pass it on to their children is often difficult for urban First Nation dwellers. Therefore, when developing and delivering programs and government policy, it is essential to take into consideration the culture, language, protocol and lifestyle of our First Nation people.
The Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs partnered with the Institute of Urban Studies, the University of Winnipeg, to undertake a study on First Nations' mobility. The objectives of this study included developing a better appreciation of the circumstances, expectations and experience of First Nation people who have moved to Winnipeg, and in doing so, we have developed a better understanding of their service needs and the extent to which those needs are being met.
The interim report of this study has outlined the following findings: Primary reasons for moving to Winnipeg included family, employment and education. The average mover is a single person between the ages of 20 and 39, with 70 per cent of this group earning less than $15,000 per year. The majority of these persons moved into the city without a formal housing arrangement in place. The average waiting period for subsidized housing in Winnipeg is anywhere from two to six months. Judging by these statistics, it is evident that there is a need to increase services to ensure that our First Nation citizens are able to make a smooth transition from rural to urban life. This must include a package of services to meet their diverse set of needs, including transitional housing.
Respondents to the survey also indicated that they would like to see advocacy services for First Nation newcomers so that they can understand the system. It was also mentioned that they would like to see a First Nation organization delivering social programming.
We feel that this information will allow us to foster an improved working relationship between governments and the First Nation community in Winnipeg in assessing and responding to urban service delivery needs, rather than redirecting resources from the reserves that are funded based solely on on-reserve population.
As mentioned previously, the federal government must recognize the portability of First Nation treaty and inherent rights. As such, the government should increase funds to First Nations in order for them to develop and deliver programs to their citizens in urban centres.
We will distribute the information from this study that we have developed as a partner with you.
First Nations have developed cultural, administrative, political and technical strengths at the community, tribal council and regional level, and now wish to extend these strengths into the urban environment.
First Nations want to work with all levels of government to ensure that there are culturally appropriate services being delivered to meet the needs of our First Nation people living in the urban centres, particularly our youth.
New data from the 2001 census shows that the Aboriginal population is much younger than the non-Aboriginal population. The median age for the Aboriginal population in Manitoba is 22.8 years, while that of the non-Aboriginal population is at an all time high of 37.7 years.
What does this mean in terms of labour market participation? In terms of the need for education and training, government and the private sector need to see these youth as an untapped resource and the leaders of our future. They want education, they want training; they want to learn the teachings of their traditions so that they can create their own path for the future.
With that, I will turn the presentation over to Kathleen McKay, the Manitoba First Nation youth representative to the Assembly of First Nations Youth Council. Thank you.
Ms. Kathleen McKay, Youth Council, Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs: I would like to express my gratitude to you for inviting the youth to be here today, and also to my youth council for selecting me to represent them.
As I speak today, I will be holding this eagle feather because it symbolizes honour and strength. As youth, we struggle every day with not only personal issues, but also First Nation issues, and so we are the ones who need to carry on the honour. We will need as much strength as possible in order to do that.
Good morning. My name is Kathleen McKay and I am a First Nations member of Pine Creek, and I am also from the Nisichawayasihk Cree Nation. As mentioned, I am the national youth representative for the Manitoba First Nations Youth Council, and I work closely with the National Youth Council of the Assembly of First Nations.
We have prepared some briefing notes for your review. Nine main areas were identified, and they correspond to the nine areas that were also identified under the National Aboriginal Youth Strategy. Under each category the youth have made recommendations on how to address each of the issues and highlighted some of the key ones.
Unfortunately, we were not able to provide translated documents, so I apologize for that.
Today I would like to take the opportunity to focus on the efforts of the Manitoba First Nations Youth Council Initiative, and more importantly, illustrate our vision as youth, including our ideas and what we are currently striving to accomplish.
I will begin by speaking about the Manitoba First Nations Youth Council Initiative. It is a regional youth council initiative driven by the issues and recommendations that are identified annually by the First Nations youth of Manitoba. Recommendations are voiced by youth at regional youth gatherings and are implemented by two very important groups; the first is the AMC Youth Secretariat, and Jason Whitford, to my left, is the regional coordinator; and also the Manitoba First Nations Youth Advisory Committee. There are 16 members on the committee and seven staff within the AMC youth department. It is these two groups that work together, along with volunteers, to implement the ideas and recommendations made by youth from across the province.
Also, the AMC is very supportive in providing internship opportunities, so we now also have youth interns who work together to empower youth through youth-driven initiatives, including the development and delivery of programs.
I just wanted to make mention of the regional youth gatherings. Every year we have a youth gathering — there have been five, the council has been around for five years — and we are slowly getting more recognition and more interest from the youth population. We have a focus theme for every year, and this year we are going to be focusing on education and leadership. We also have annual elections for our youth representatives, so it is an opportunity to teach youth about the political processes, including elections, campaigning and selection of leadership. We really try to encourage them to also go out and vote in other elections that take place in the region.
The support from the First Nations leadership is strong right now, and that is initially how the AMC youth department was established, along with the youth council. The chiefs encouraged it and supported it by resolution. The ongoing support from the chiefs is also what keeps us strong, and is helping us to create the awareness that we are here and the type of work that we are trying to accomplish. Right now, we are focusing on getting ongoing support, but also support from all levels of leadership.
One of the recommendations and initiatives that we hope to focus on and work toward is a youth leadership institute, in order to develop the leadership skills in our youth and to prepare them. Our current leadership faces a lot of struggles, as Grand Chief White Bird had discussed, and we want to prepare the youth in order to take over those positions. It is a commonly heard phrase that the youth are our future leaders, but I like to look at the youth as our leaders, and we are just slowly preparing them to fill the moccasins.
We visit a lot of the communities, including urban areas. We know that there is a large concentration of youth in urban areas, so we have regular consultations. Whether we are invited out to do a presentation or a workshop, we also take it as an opportunity to create awareness and consult with the youth. What is the situation in their community and how can we help them?
One of the biggest issues that have been raised by the youth is the lack of youth centres, lack of resource centres, and so we have been working on trying to get inclusion for First Nations communities. The Keewatin Winnipeg Youth Initiative is currently funded by the Urban Multipurpose Aboriginal Youth Centre Initiative, and we have been working on trying to create an opportunity to discuss inclusion of First Nations, because the need is there. Almost all of the communities that we have visited have expressed the need for youth centres.
A resolution was passed by the Assembly of First Nations to work towards inclusion of the First Nations in that initiative, because it is such a good initiative and has been successful. I will speak a little on the Keewatin Winnipeg Youth Initiative later, but that is one of the initiatives that we have developed and are currently delivering, and it has proven very successful. If we can provide opportunities like that in First Nations communities, I know that we would be positively impacting a lot of the youth in Manitoba.
The other thing that is ongoing is our communication strategy. We currently have an intern developing a newsletter and we have a Web site through the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs. We are also trying to create an environmental database. Taking responsibility in promoting respect and care for our environment is one of our priorities.
I will speak a little about the Keewatin Winnipeg Youth Initiative. I would like to leave you some time to ask questions. I think it would be easier if we could provide the information that you request instead of me sitting here and telling you things.
The Keewatin Winnipeg Youth Initiative is a youth-driven program. It is delivered by youth coordinators. There are currently 32 participants and it is in its second year. In the first year, they had 20 participants and it was very successful. It is in a northern neighbourhood of Winnipeg. It is a holistic project. It works on all four aspects of personal well-being in helping the youth develop their skills. The focus is to prepare them for employment or to return to school while teaching them how to live a balanced lifestyle. It is also an avenue for developing relationships with other partnering organizations for either volunteering or job placements.
From my understanding, you will be attending a dinner tonight with the participants in the Keewatin Winnipeg Youth Initiative, and I think you will be very impressed with the feedback from them about some of the positive experiences that they have had with the program.
We have submitted a proposal for ongoing funding for phase 3, and hopefully it will be accepted.
I hope you are looking forward to meeting the youth. They are very well-spoken; they have come a long way, and it shows. It shows in their smiles and in their enthusiasm.
I would like to end with that. I thank you for this opportunity to speak with you, and hopefully I can answer any questions that you may have.
Senator St. Germain: There is no question that you have laid out the problems that face our youth across the country, but which are most common here in Manitoba, and possibly Saskatchewan and Alberta, which is originally my home province. I was born along the Assiniboine River just west of here, so I am familiar with the McKays. As a matter of fact, I am related to some of you.
My question is in regards to the transitional funding. Chief, how do we do this without making our people dependent on social funding? I realize that we need to get them educated and develop a sense of pride, but in these transitional processes from reserves to the urban areas, how do we define the fine line between people coming to the city and becoming dependent on this funding and becoming self-sufficient? This is the big issue in anything, as far as I am concerned. Of the young people that I grew up with along the Assiniboine River, I was the only one who graduated from high school, and the fact is that most of them are dead today from alcohol or drug abuse. A lot of them ended up on welfare. That is my greatest fear. Ms. McKay, you spoke about the Keewatin centre working from a holistic point of view on this, but that is one of my concerns. The worst thing you can do is to develop a dependency on any form of social assistance. How do we define that? Can you help me with that?
Mr. White Bird: Let me begin by trying to respond in terms of transition, in terms of dependency. I think as First Nation people, it was not our choice to be dependent on government resources. As a matter of fact, I want to start by saying that we were very independent prior to the government's legislation, prior to government policy being put in place to support First Nation people. We were a self-sustaining nation, we had our own land, we had our own resources and we provided for our families. We had a great deal of pride in what we had achieved.
In response to your question, I think that we need to accommodate our young people by providing a number of factors, including quality housing, quality education and quality programming for support services. We need to offer stability. I think when you have a good home, a good school and a good family it all has an effect on the success ratio. You need the opportunity to exercise and experience your culture with your fellow youth.
One of the other factors would be ownership of this program. I think it is absolutely critical.
In my comments, I alluded to the fact that when immigrants come to Canada, their support services are much greater than we receive as First Nations people. Funding for a First Nation community is on a per-capita basis, on the number of people who live on the reserve. In effect, there are no dollars allocated to any First Nation person who happens to come to live in the city of Winnipeg. There is no transition support for those people. They are basically on their own. I think there is a critical need, and the statistics state that 50.6 per cent of our Aboriginal population is living in the city of Winnipeg. Our youth population is large, and if we do not start to prepare now for the future, the city of Winnipeg will have the highest native population with the highest unemployment rate, and more than likely the highest crime rate.
I have had the opportunity to visit the youth centre here in the city of Winnipeg, I believe it is called Agassiz, and 90 per cent of the people there are Aboriginal youth. It is the same with the provincial institutions, the jails; it is all Aboriginal people.
I think we need to change those statistics. We need to change the people in the youth detention centres, the jails, into a positive working force.
Senator St. Germain: You say there is no funding at all for this at the present time? How are the Keewatin and the Agassiz centre that you refer to funded, sir?
Mr. White Bird: The Keewatin youth centre is funded through Human Resource Development Canada, but there is no identifiable resource going to the First Nation community to support the youth.
Senator St. Germain: Thank you.
Mr. White Bird: Various programs have their own small allocation, but more often than not, there is no money.
Senator St. Germain: There are two things that I see lacking and I do not know the solution. I have talked to various native chiefs across the country. We have people coming from backgrounds of subsisting off the land, and as you pointed out, who were traditionally proud. Yet, my father never went to school. He was a trapper. A lot of the older people, perhaps not so much in your family, Ms. McKay, just cannot relate to a formal type of education.
My concern is that if people are not driven by something, or if they do not have heroes to look up to, it is very difficult to motivate them and create that inspiration. I do not know how this would be accomplished, but I look at some of our natives, Kim Bell and others, who have really accomplished great things. How do we work at that aspect?
My other question is about the spiritual side. I think if you do not have a spiritual base, you become totally secularized in a world that is driven by materialism, and that is not necessarily the answer.
I know these are possibly simple subjects to discuss at a hearing like this. However, I have always advocated that every First Nation should have on their reserves or their land base a place where Aboriginal peoples, even though they are in the cities like this, can go for spiritual healing purposes, for cultural purposes, and that these should be held in perpetuity and never taxed. That is one of the reasons I was opposed to the Nisga'a agreement, because taxation eventually equates to expropriation and future generations will lose these things.
Ms. McKay: I agree with you about lacking the drive. One of the things that we as youth recognize and discuss on a regular basis is that money is not a motivator; motivation is in the people. One part of our proposed solution is to have our programs delivered by First Nations people, people who are living examples of what can be accomplished and how it can be accomplished. That is why we have youth delivering the youth programs, because we want to show them that you do not have to grow up in the city in a big house and go to a fancy school to know what you are talking about and be able to teach somebody. That is one of the approaches that we have taken, that it is our responsibility to teach the youth that. Hopefully we can get more youth on board to think along the same lines.
As for the spiritual base, we as First Nations people try to follow a holistic lifestyle. That is another thing that we are trying to teach, not only the Aboriginal people, but the non-Aboriginal as well. We need to have that understanding, and education of non-Aboriginals is extremely important to the success of that.
In her introduction, Senator Chalifoux stated that we had been studied to death, but I disagree. I think we need to be studied more; people need to know. The studies right now do not portray much of what we are as First Nation people. They portray all of the negative things that we are experiencing, yes, but now we have to start talking about the strengths, and that is what will empower the people and take us away from that dependence.
Mr. White Bird: I think that the biggest challenge that we have as First Nation people is to revive our spirituality. Government policy, federal legislation and rules outlawed practicing our spirituality, and it has had a major impact on our people. Residential schools, everything, encouraged us to leave aside our spirituality, our First Nation, our ``Indianness'' let's say. There was a great effort under the government's policy to try to assimilate us and to make us into Canadians, which we will never be. We are a First Nation people. We had our own way of life and you cannot wipe that out. We have young people who are starting now to learn their identity. We will maintain our culture for as long as we live, and in spite of the challenge, we will survive.
We have survived almost 600 years of encroachment in which we have lost our land, our resources, and some of our nations, but that does not mean that the rest of us will go the same way. We will continue to work on our languages, on getting some of our land back, and even possibly our resources. We had economies at one point. We still have that economy, to a limited extent, in terms of our traditional lands and territories. There is a major perception out there that we gave away our land, we sold it, we gave it up, and that is very far from the truth. We believe this land is still ours. That will always be part our culture, we can never separate ourselves from the land. Today we struggle to try and retain our language and teach it to our young people, to our children.
We have heroes of our own. Our heroes are our elders, because, number one, they carry the language; they are historians and they teach us what our culture is all about.
We see people such as John Kim Bell, Phil Fontaine and Ovide Mercredi. We have doctors, lawyers and other professional people. These are our heroes and we will continue to look up to them. Once we build up that pride in our young people, give them back their language, their culture and their identity, they will work that much harder to achieve.
I agree with you about the healing centres. Give us the money to provide them in the community; they will help so much with cultural retention, language and a sense of pride, because that is what it is all about. When I have had the opportunity to travel in Northern Ontario, as the government calls it, I have seen these traditional buildings that are known as round houses, which are Ojibway structures. This is where they come together to practice their culture, their ceremonies and their dances. They serve a multi-communal function. I think that every First Nation community should have that.
Senator Johnson: Minister Sheila Copps was here about two weeks ago and gave a substantial sum of money for the teaching of the Cree language. You were talking about how important language is. Is this a positive initiative for you? Will it help in terms of what you are talking about, in regards to your culture, heroes and the young people relating to that?
Mr. White Bird: I am not sure what the amount is, but it is significant; it is in the millions of dollars.
Senator Johnson: I think is it $2.7 million just for language teaching.
Mr. White Bird: I was under the impression there was more.
Senator Johnson: It could be more in terms of the whole package.
Mr. White Bird: I believe that there was an announcement of approximately $100 million for language programs over a five-year period. However, when you divide that up on a national basis, you have ten provinces and two territories to consider, so now it is approximately $8 million per province or territory. Then that $8 million must be divided among the treaty, the Metis the non-status people and the Inuit over five years. I believe that Manitoba's allocation for one year is about $500,000, to be divided among five different linguistic groups, so each would get about $100,000. Yet they spend millions of dollars to promote English and French as the official languages here in Canada. Our languages are the first languages of this country and are not even recognized. That is my point.
Senator Pearson: I really appreciated your presentation and the work that you have done here. I am taking a quick glance at your identification of the issues and your recommendations. I wanted to look at two of the sections. The first is the political issues, because one of the things that we are very interested in as we talk to young people is youth empowerment and youth decision making, and you talked about leadership training and what that might involve. It struck me that when we look at the political issues your voice is not just that of young First Nations people, you are speaking for almost all young people. I hear the same message; it does not really matter where it comes from. They are not being listened to, there is negative media coverage, they are forgotten after an election and they are not included in the political process. Your young people have identified these as issues.
You have both human rights and treaty rights, and I was interested in how the young people feel about things like human rights issues, and about their own rights as human beings. Have you had some lively discussions on that? That is the first question.
Ms. McKay: I will answer your question from experience, because I have been working with youth for about 10 years, and I have worked with high-risk individuals within the youth centre.
The environments that youth are subjected to leave them thinking that they do not understand the boundaries, and as mentioned earlier, there is much dependence. There is so much dependence that they do not look at themselves as individuals, they consider themselves ``a native person,'' just part of a native group. I am not just talking in terms of abuse that we face as a people; I am talking about a regular day, walking into a store and things like that. They are not aware of their rights.
I did a needs assessment in my community, and found that some youth do not even know what racism is. They experience it, they will describe an experience, but they do not realize that it is racism or discrimination or stereotyping. It happens on so many different levels, but they do not understand that that is a violation against them. That is what I mean when I say that they are not aware of their rights and that they are entitled to be respected as individuals.
Senator Pearson: That is a very good answer, because I think that is exactly what is at the basis of human rights, the sense of respect as a human being. The convention against discrimination emphasizes exactly that. It is important to continue that educational role that you are bringing out.
My other question has to do with health. We have been listening to a lot of young people who have been bringing to us concerns about sexuality. So many of the issues around teenage pregnancy, prostitution and so on, are to some extent a matter of exploitation, which is a result of poor, inadequate or absent education about what healthy sexuality is. I wondered whether your young people find that a priority.
A lot of young people from whom we are hearing say this is a priority, that there should be more outreach, more clinics, more opportunity for young people to explore and discuss their sexuality and what is to be healthy sexually, how important it is in the human context, what it says about love and so on, rather than all the negative prohibitions. Can you comment on that? I know it is a big question.
Ms. McKay: Absolutely, that is one of probably the top three issues that youth identify. And if it is not teen pregnancy, it is teen parenting. That is an approach that we are hoping to take through the establishment of a youth leadership institute, or whatever comes from this vision we have.
Education is not just going to a school, sitting in a room and teaching the youth whatever. Education is a daily process.
I agree, and one of the things that we do in our own communities or communities that we visit is to try to steer away from the negative, the ``do not,'' as you mentioned. The other thing is to get the leadership on board to promote that in their own communities. I think it is important for it to come from the leadership as well.
Senator Pearson: Of the three priorities that you talked about, education is one.
Ms. McKay: Teen pregnancy is one. When we identify issues, we often do an exercise called ``identifying the obstacles and solutions,'' and teen pregnancy is probably one of the top three.
Senator Pearson: And the other two are?
Ms. McKay: Alcoholism and drugs. Another would probably be lack of recreation.
Senator Pearson: Thank you very much, and good luck.
Senator Chaput: Grand Chief, you talked about Canada's policy falling short of your needs, and I agree. You talked also about key policy areas that need to be addressed. Then you gave us examples of essential services, and this document from the youth gives us issues and recommendations.
My question is to both of you: When we talked about increasing and redirecting funding that is needed for the youth, you said, ``Give us the dollars.'' What would be the structure or the body to receive those dollars, who are they? Also, how will you ensure that Aboriginal youth will be involved in the decision making process, because they are the leaders of tomorrow?
Mr. White Bird: Thank you for your question.
Perhaps I can describe to you the political structure here in Manitoba, where we have approximately 63 First Nation distinct communities. We have a major political organization, the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs, which deals strictly with political issues. I am not in charge of any program or program monies, except one, and I do not like it. Of course, that is the Human Resources Development Canada funding. It was a single-window program from HRDC under which we signed one contribution agreement for all of the resources to provide training to all of the First Nation communities. The problem that I have in administering the money is of a political nature. I have a major problem in terms of dealing with chiefs and how this money is parcelled out. We are in the process of setting up an arm's-length corporation to administer all of the money. That would still be tied into the central organization, the assembly, through reporting to the chief. In that way, we would take the politics out of administration. At the same time, we certainly want to be able to trust another body to administer the funding. We certainly want to increase the capacity that is already present.
The Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs has a chartered accountant who is responsible for all of the money that comes into the organization. We have a lot of capacity right now in terms of administering funds, reporting for that money and ensuring that it goes to the project for which it was designated. We need increased capacity, and at the same time we need to give responsibility to an administering agent.
We need to give responsibility to our young people to take charge, and once they do, then they will be responsible not only to themselves, but to the funding agency, for ensuring that everything goes according to plan.
Senator Léger: I have some comments on things I heard this morning that struck me.
First of all, thank you very much for the speech and the prayer. You had a young person there who is living everything that you are asking for. A young person with spirituality and who is in university, studying, I think, economics. You said he was graduating. That struck me at the beginning.
I believe there is a big difference between the Aboriginals and the immigrants. It is as if the immigrants have some kind of an identity, I will say the Chinese, while we often forget all of the Aboriginals. The support services, I understand, are not at all the same.
Another thing that struck me was, in spite of the lack of resources, you have action going on among the Aboriginals. Ms. McKay, you said money is not the motivator, but the people. You are absolutely right. If you wait for the money, of course, nothing will ever happen because we will never have enough. Please teach the non-Aboriginals. We need to know. I do not know if there are things I should not say here. We read in the newspapers about monies that are given. For example, I read last week that $341,000 went to some chief. We need explanations for that. You understand? I was just a citizen who read that in the paper, but who wrote it? They may have got it upside down. We need to know all of that. We need this teaching. We need to know the native history. We need to revive spirituality.
I think what you are doing is prophetic — multiculturalism, side by side, and you are the beginning of it; that is what I feel.
That is all I wanted to comment on. That is what struck me.
Senator Johnson: Being a native Manitoban and having grown up in Gimli and Winnipeg, I am very familiar with many of the problems and, of course, have seen them at close hand all of my life.
I am one who likes to look on the positive side as well. I am really impressed with the Keewatin Winnipeg Youth Initiative, Ms. McKay, I think those kinds of initiatives are some of the solutions.
I would like you to tell me, though, and I know that time is short, but it always is, how many youth centres do we have now? I am not quite certain. And what do you think is the key thing they are accomplishing?
Ms. McKay: Are you speaking of youth resource centres?
Senator Johnson: Youth centres, as well as drop-in centres. I often work out at the Y and I see a lot of kids there at night, or in the afternoons, kids in daycare, youth centres; we have youth programs for them. Of course, I am a great believer in recreation or sport for the health of any population. I am just curious to know how may youth centres there are now, as well as the initiatives that you are starting. Are the kids still coming and are they still involved?
Ms. McKay: Aside from the youth centres for the general population, such as the boys and girls clubs and things like that, in terms of servicing First Nations or Aboriginal youth, there is the friendship centre.
Senator Johnson: Would that be the most successful model in the city to date?
Ms. McKay: The Keewatin Winnipeg Youth Initiative?
Senator Johnson: No, the friendship centre.
Ms. McKay: I would not say it is unsuccessful, but I would not say it is the most successful. This is kind of a biased answer, but the Keewatin Winnipeg Youth Initiative is probably the best program that I have ever seen implemented, because not only does it focus on the recreational aspect, it delivers on all four aspects of personal growth. For me, that is a successful youth centre. That is what we are encouraging our communities to pursue, taking the holistic approach, because it is more than just recreation, you have to instil values and create a sense of identity at the same time.
Senator Johnson: And it is five years old?
Ms. McKay: No, this is the second year of the program.
Senator Johnson: This is the second year? My information was wrong.
The Chairman: Is that funded by UMAYC?
Ms. McKay: Yes, it is.
The Chairman: That is what I wanted to ask, and I know we are short on time and we have the deputy minister here, but do you have some issues with the UMAYC funding?
Ms. McKay: Yes, several. First of all, it does not service First Nations communities. Maybe I will let Mr. Whitford answer this because he is our negotiator.
The Chairman: Remember that this is an urban issue that we are talking about. We have been hearing a lot of issues about UMAYC related to funding problems.
Ms. McKay: I will give that to Mr. Whitford.
Mr. Jason Whitford, Regional Youth Coordinator, Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs: Good morning. Thank you for the opportunity to speak.
One of the main issues that we have with the Urban Multipurpose Aboriginal Youth Centre Initiative is the amount of funding that we receive. The projects that are funded are short term, which does not allow us to implement long- term plans. One of our recommendations was to coordinate Winnipeg projects. We wanted to know what was going on across the city, because we do not know what is going on from one project to the next.
The level of funding, the time frame and the process for approvals are problems. Our project ends on March 31, and we have reapplied for a follow-up phase to meet demand. Initially, our plan was to address a need in the north end of Winnipeg, but we found it to be popular city wide, and even rural communities have asked us to hold seats for youth migrating to the city, to use it as a transition program to help their students become comfortable with the city of Winnipeg.
Project staff work very hard, but I understand there are only two to manage the file in Winnipeg. One of the things that we can compliment them on is the youth advisory committee that oversees the project-approval process and provides recommendations.
The biggest problems are not being certain of the funding and the inadequate level. One of our recommendations was for a funded facility similar to the one in Saskatoon, run by First Nation youth for First Nation youth. We are achieving a great deal of success using that approach.
The Chairman: Is that the White Buffalo Centre in Saskatoon?
Mr. Whitford: Yes.
The Chairman: I have several questions, but I will save them for tonight because we have the deputy minister here. We can continue this evening.
I would like to thank you all very much. Your testimony has been interesting and informative.
I have just one comment about the studies. We have always had non-Aboriginals studying us. It is time that we studied ourselves.
I would like now to welcome Mr. Harvey Bostrom, Deputy Minister for Aboriginal and Northern Affairs for Manitoba.
Mr. Harvey Bostrom, Deputy Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs, Government of Manitoba: I apologize on behalf of the Honourable Oscar Lathlin, who was scheduled to be here this morning. Unfortunately he called in ill this morning, so I was pressed into service in quick order.
This is a matter of personal and professional interest to me, so I hope that I will be able to handle the assignment.
We have handed out a number of documents that should be in front of you. One is called ``A Guide to Winnipeg for Aboriginal Newcomers,'' which is a publication of two provincial departments and Human Resources Development Canada. There is also a document called ``Education and Training as the Bridge to Employment.'' I would be happy to refer to these later on if there is some interest in and questions on those documents.
We have also passed out a document entitled ``Aboriginal people in Manitoba,'' again a joint effort of the Manitoba government and Human Resources Development Canada.
I will reference in the opening remarks here many of the comments that the minister wanted to make if he could have been here today. Hopefully I can do it in my own words.
In Manitoba we have a larger number of Aboriginal people per capita than any other province in Canada. Aboriginal people in Manitoba face huge challenges, just as they do across the nation. According to the 1996 census statistics, about 10 per cent of Manitoba's workforce was made up of people of Aboriginal descent. At the same time, the unemployment rate among Aboriginal people, according to the census, was about three times the non-Aboriginal rate. This is clearly an unacceptable level and we must all work to change it. In the next decade, people of Aboriginal descent will likely represent up to a quarter of the people entering the workforce in this province. At the same time, more than one-third of Aboriginal people in their 20s have no paid job experience.
Even with educational qualifications, as you will see in some of the documents that we passed out, Aboriginal people are often at a disadvantage. For example, Aboriginal people with high school and college diplomas are almost four times as likely to be unemployed than non-Aboriginal graduates. Even Aboriginal university graduates have unemployment rates almost two times their non-Aboriginal counterparts. This is a challenge, obviously, for Aboriginal people as well as governments, but more importantly, we see this as an opportunity for both the private and public sectors.
The workforce is aging in this province and across the country, and in any number of areas, employers are wondering where they will find workers in the next five to ten years to replace the wave of retirements that will occur. At the same time, roughly 40 per cent of the Aboriginal population is under 16 years old.
As John Kim Bell has said, we cannot divorce education from employment. We believe the recent federal contribution to the National Aboriginal Achievement Foundation for scholarships for Aboriginal people is a step in the right direction. The Winnipeg Aboriginal Centre, in the old CPR station, is a few blocks from here. I would urge you to visit this centre, if you have the opportunity, to see an extraordinary example of innovation and creativity by Aboriginal people, an example of what could be happening in other cities in Canada. It is a success story that is changing the lives of hundreds of urban Aboriginal people each year.
Across the street from there is the remarkable Circle of Life Thunderbird House, which is certainly a cultural and educational centre for not only Aboriginal people, but non-Aboriginal people as well. In the same area, the Manitoba Metis Federation has its organizational headquarters, which also serves as headquarters for programs and services. They deliver services from that centre to Metis people in Winnipeg and in other areas of Manitoba. They have a very active housing organization that is probably the largest landlord in rural and Northern Manitoba, because they manage housing on behalf of CMHC and Manitoba Housing.
I would recommend that when you have the opportunity, you visit these centres in Winnipeg and see the creative and innovative work of Aboriginal people in this city.
Manitoba's Aboriginal strategy focuses on increasing Aboriginal education, training and employment opportunities. This is a priority also of a unique organization that was established about three years ago by federal-provincial-territorial ministers of Aboriginal affairs and the national Aboriginal leadership. They worked together for the past few years in this unique forum called the FPTA forum. As part of that work, the ministers and officials from governments and the national Aboriginal organizations produced a report called ``Strengthening Aboriginal Participation in the Economy.'' This report recommends engaging the private sector, as well as the public sector, in the development of partnerships to promote Aboriginal participation in the economy.
Manitoba is committed to using this report as a guide to promote economic activity and employment in Aboriginal and Northern communities and across the province.
The FPTA forum also developed another unique report called ``The National Aboriginal Youth Strategy,'' the first- ever national strategy for Aboriginal youth in Canada. It was created for and by youth in partnership with the provincial and federal governments and the Aboriginal organizations and leaders.
These reports stress that engaging the private sector is important in increasing the Aboriginal employment that is so vital to our collective future in this country. In Manitoba we have partnered with the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce and the Business Council of Manitoba to promote this goal, and we have plans to expand this directly to some of the larger employers in this province.
The Manitoba government is committed to increasing the number of Aboriginal people in the public service. As an example, my minister's former Department of Conservation, which is one of the larger employers within the provincial public service, introduced an Aboriginal employment strategy that was very successful and serves as a model for recruiting and retaining Aboriginal employees at all levels in the public service. Manitoba Hydro is also having significant success in increasing the percentage of Aboriginal people in its workforce.
In 2001, Manitoba signed a partnership with the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority to promote and increase the representation of Aboriginal people in the health care workforce. Just as an example, the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority employs about 27,000 people, which is almost twice the number of public servants in the entire provincial government. Therefore, it is an important employer in Winnipeg and surrounding area, and we hope through this agreement to promote both the recruitment and retention of Aboriginal people at all levels.
Since then we have signed similar Aboriginal employment strategy agreements with the Norman and Burntwood Regional Health Authorities, in which the objectives are to increase Aboriginal representation among the health care workers in Northern areas of our province.
Two weeks ago, a similar memorandum of understanding was signed between the Manitoba Emergency Services College in Brandon and the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs. This MOU promotes the training of Aboriginal people in emergency response support, search and rescue and fire-training programs that encourage the pursuit of careers in the emergency services field.
Our labour market analysis tells us that corporations now expect 70 per cent of all new jobs will require post- secondary training. One of the problems — of course it is obvious — is that Aboriginal levels of education are sadly not measuring up to this requirement. In Manitoba, less than 30 per cent of young people, according to the 1996 census, completed high school on reserves in Manitoba. Slightly more than 40 per cent completed high school off- reserve. The rate, as you can see, is of major concern. Education completion rates are changing, but not fast enough.
We need a comprehensive national strategy for Aboriginal education, training and employment that addresses the needs of the public sector as well as the private sector, that is, the corporations, who create the majority of jobs. We need to train our young people to become full participants in the economy.
To Manitoba, an Aboriginal employment strategy is the key element of any comprehensive Aboriginal strategy and must include Aboriginal training and education.
Last week, Manitoba announced a $10-million contribution towards the provincial component of pre-project training for Northern Aboriginal people for the upcoming Manitoba Hydro projects in Northern Manitoba. We are looking for a federal government contribution to this. Once the federal government confirms its share, we will be able to train upwards of 800 people for a series of Manitoba Hydro projects in the North that will be developed and implemented over the next decade or two. Such jobs would go a long way towards involving Aboriginal people in Northern Manitoba in an economy that we are making every effort to expand.
Our efforts to expand our Northern economy are encompassed within Manitoba's Northern Development Strategy, which identifies five priorities: transportation, health, employment and training, housing and economic development. Extra efforts to encourage apprenticeship training are happily showing some good results. The Stats Canada report released last week shows that Aboriginal apprenticeships in Manitoba are up 300 per cent since the last census.
We hope the new Red River College campus in downtown Winnipeg will increase the success rate. The enrolment numbers of students in colleges and universities have gone up dramatically over the past three years as Manitoba has frozen tuition rates.
The Government of Manitoba firmly believes it is time to count Aboriginal workers in, and to do so in numbers that are truly representative of our growing Aboriginal population. Educating and hiring more Aboriginal workers is a goal that we believe every government, private industry and union movement in Canada must strive to achieve.
The Manitoba government has restored funding to a number of Aboriginal organizations that contribute to this effort — the friendship centres, Aboriginal organizations such as the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs, the Manitoba Metis Federation, and the Southern Chiefs Organization — and we are working with them on a number of important projects. One of them is the AJI, that is, Aboriginal Justice Inquiry — Child Welfare Initiative. This initiative alone will see the transfer of an annual budget of approximately $100 million to Aboriginal childcare authorities. For the first time in Manitoba, Aboriginal organizations and Aboriginal peoples will have control over Aboriginal child welfare.
Manitoba government departments also work with the Aboriginal Council of Winnipeg and the Mother of Red Nation. Both organizations do excellent work.
The Manitoba government signed an MOU in late January of this year with the federal and city governments for the development of a new tripartite agreement in Winnipeg. This agreement will have a strong Aboriginal focus, as it should.
The department and the Manitoba government are dedicated to continuing efforts to break down every barrier to Aboriginal participation in the economy and to promote and strengthen that participation.
As I indicated, I brought several copies of information that we could reference if you have the opportunity this morning. The booklet that is small in size here, but large in distribution, is the ``Guide to Winnipeg for Aboriginal Newcomers,'' and it literally flies off the shelves. It lists in the front of the book a number of services in Winnipeg that are available to people arriving in the city for perhaps the first time — housing, transportation, shopping, banking, health and safety. You will see that there are a number of interesting quotes from people who are actually working in these various sectors, such as Aboriginal liaison workers at colleges and universities in Winnipeg, and who are working with newcomers to the city and helping them to get established.
As I indicated, ``Aboriginal People in Manitoba'' is a very valuable report for us and others involved with Aboriginal people. It is a compendium of information on the circumstances of Aboriginal people in Manitoba and has a special section on youth. It has a special focus on Winnipeg. People who have read this book have told me that every Canadian should read it because it gives you an indication of the circumstances of Aboriginal people in Manitoba, and they are very similar to circumstances that you would find in any province in Canada.
The other document is actually a PowerPoint presentation that we developed from information in this book and others. There are some interesting pieces in there that I could reference, if you have the opportunity. It is called ``Education and Training as a Bridge to Employment.''
We appreciate the opportunity to make a presentation this morning and the interest that you are showing. One of the cultural aspects of Aboriginal people is the circle, and your taking an interest in this matter and coming here to Winnipeg, I think is an example of you coming inside our circle in order to understand better. As you said earlier, it is important for all Canadians to be introduced to and educated about these matters.
Senator Pearson: Thank you very much for your presentation. I look forward to reading the book, so I will not drill you on that for the moment.
My ears pricked up when you made a comment about the Aboriginal Justice Initiative and child welfare. Could you elaborate a little on that program?
Mr. Bostrom: It is referred to as the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry — Child Welfare Initiative because it came out of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry Commission implementation recommendations. They suggested that one way of dealing with the statistics on Aboriginal people within the justice system was to have Aboriginal input into and control over the Aboriginal child welfare system. Many Aboriginal people who are incarcerated in Manitoba have, at one time or another, been clients of the child welfare system, and very seldom has it been a happy experience.
In our experience, First Nations that have operated child welfare agencies in this province for a number of years on reserve have been doing a much better job of handling those services than the non-Aboriginal agencies ever did. They have achieved significant and important results such as lowering the number of children coming into care and putting an Aboriginal cultural and traditional focus into the delivery of that program.
For example, one agency in Northern Manitoba, the Awasis Agency, has literally written the book on child welfare in Canada and how it should be delivered. I wish I had brought a copy of the report, but if you contact the Awasis Agency, they have a book and other publications on how they handle child welfare. They look at the child in the context of the family and the community. They work on prevention and early intervention to ensure that children do not have to be apprehended and brought into the justice system, which is very traumatic for everyone concerned.
Senator Pearson: I understand. This is a federal rather than a provincial problem, but it has been brought to my attention that there is an administrative directive that works against kids being kept in the community, in the sense that you get more money if you take the child into care. I know there have been recommendations to address that — have you any support for addressing that, or do you know about that particular directive?
Mr. Bostrom: Certainly it has been a struggle for the First Nation agencies to deal with the federal government's regulatory system in that regard. I think that in the case of Awasis, they have been able to work out certain arrangements to keep the money in the pot, so to speak.
Senator Pearson: It is a good model?
Mr. Bostrom: It is a good model. You would have to ask them, but my understanding is they have overcome some of those bureaucratic and regulatory problems whereby they were potentially losing money because they were successful.
Senator Tkachuk: I have a number of questions. I am trying to get a handle on, when we talk about Aboriginal youth, the fact that we are dealing with reserves and the non-status and Metis. How do the graduation rates for kids living on reserve compare with those of the Metis and non-status living off the reserve?
Mr. Bostrom: Can I refer you to this? If you look at page 6 in this document, there is a chart here showing Manitoba high school graduation rates from the 1996 census. It shows the three age groups there, 15 to 29, 30 to 39, 40 to 49, and there is an average at the bottom. The non-Aboriginal stats are in the left-hand column, and we were able to break out the Metis statistics and also to show the status off reserve and status on reserve, and of course there is an overall Aboriginal rate. As you can see, the Aboriginal rates overall are certainly far below the non-Aboriginal.
Senator Tkachuk: Yes.
Mr. Bostrom: If you look into the detail, you will see the Metis rates are generally a little higher than for the status.
Senator Tkachuk: They are substantially higher than the status, are they not? They are 17 per cent higher in the 30 to 39 age group — actually the percentage is greater, but 20 points higher for all age groups, at 45.7 versus 27.9.
Are the high schools on reserve run by the bands or do they have deals with communities?
Mr. Bostrom: There are a variety of models. Some of the high schools on reserve are operated by the community, by the First Nation. Some are operated by the Frontier School Division, which is a provincial Northern school division that operates in remote areas. There are some reserves where, while the students continue to be resident on reserve, they attend school off-reserve.
Senator Tkachuk: How do the ones that go off the reserve compare with the ones who are taking high school on reserve?
Mr. Bostrom: I think it would be fair to say that overall, even though these statistics do not look that promising because we are just looking at the one census year, if you were to compare these statistics to those of 10 or 15 or 20 years earlier, these would look remarkably better. The graduation rate on reserve has improved with local control over education. I would say that there is still a long way to go, but generally, there has been an improvement in the rates with local control.
Senator Tkachuk: Do the high school students here write provincial exams in grade 12 for university entrance, et cetera, as they do in Saskatchewan?
Mr. Bostrom: No.
Senator Tkachuk: Therefore, each high school has its own exam program and there is nothing province wide. Do you do any testing, say on reserve schools?
Mr. Bostrom: There is no formal, province-wide exam system for high schools like there was, say 20 or 30 years ago. That has been phased out. The school divisions are responsible for determining the graduation requirements, although they do have to measure up to the requirements for university and college entrance.
Senator Tkachuk: How do they do that?
Mr. Bostrom: I suppose something can be inferred from the pure numbers of people within the system. There was a piece in the paper last week about this, and although we have not seen all of the specific Manitoba results yet, our sense is that there has certainly been a dramatic increase in the number of First Nation and Metis people attending university, as there has been a dramatic increase in Canadians in general attending university. People from reserves who are completing high school and Aboriginal people living off reserve are going on to higher education in greater numbers, whether it is college or university.
Senator Tkachuk: Looking at these stats on the high school graduation rates, my assumption would be — and I may be wrong, but from what you said at the beginning about the graduation rates having improved and being a lot worse before — that their parents would be less educated than they are. Therefore, my assumption would be, from stats that I have read, that a large majority of Metis and status off-reserve students would be from low-income homes.
Mr. Bostrom: Generally, if you look at the socio-economic circumstances, and those are outlined in the report, if you look at the employment income and the overall family incomes, there is quite a gap between the average Aboriginal family and a non-Aboriginal family.
Senator Tkachuk: Definitely. When you look at non-Aboriginal graduation rates here, for the age groups 15 to 29, 30 to 40, 40 to 49, do you have any statistics on income distribution? In other words, do poor white kids graduate from school, and in what numbers?
Mr. Bostrom: I do not have the numbers in front of me, but I would suggest that the socio-economic circumstances of families are often a determinant in how well the children perform in the school system. Therefore non-Aboriginal families in similar circumstances to Aboriginal families will have similar outcomes.
Senator Tkachuk: Therefore these numbers are really governed by income factors? If you are comparing the non- Aboriginal population to Metis, status and status on reserve, looking at income levels might give you a better idea of what the problems may be?
Mr. Bostrom: Perhaps I can use an example to illustrate what happens when there are regular work opportunities. On some reserves where there have been serious efforts to get people into the workforce, the teachers have observed higher participation in the schools. The children are showing up in the morning and there is more regular attendance. Even the nursing stations report that they are seeing fewer people. Therefore, there is certainly an argument to be made for what I was saying earlier, that strengthening Aboriginal participation in the workforce will have an effect on these kinds of statistics.
Senator Tkachuk: I just have one question on the off reserve and on reserve, because the statistics on high school graduation rates are quite stark.
The federal government pours a large amount of cash into the reserves. What would explain the fact that the numbers are so different for Aboriginal people on a reserve versus off the reserve? Not that they are good, but they are substantially different. You have a 41.6 per cent graduation rate for off-reserve Aboriginals and 27.9 for on reserve.
Mr. Bostrom: I do not have all of the answers here. It is obvious that there is a concern, and it certainly could be demonstrated that there are fewer work opportunities on reserve — perhaps some of these statistics are indicative of that — and that Metis and status people living off reserve have a better lifestyle and more opportunity to achieve a decent income and decent housing so their children can become more successful.
You say there is a lot of money going into reserves, but on just about every reserve in Canada there is a huge backlog of needed housing. On some reserves, up to 20 or 30 people are living in one house, so the fact that there may not even be a quiet place in the house where they can do their homework can certainly impact on their educational success.
There are similar problems in Winnipeg, in that people coming to the city for the first time, and even some people who have been living here for many years, are, as a result of their low-income situation, forced to reside in inadequate housing. It leads to a situation where people are moving frequently, trying to better themselves. As a result, children are moving around in the school system and not having a stable educational experience, which is detrimental to their success.
Many of these things can be linked back to the poverty situation in which Aboriginal people find themselves.
Senator Tkachuk: They are poorer on the reserve; that is why?
Mr. Bostrom: They are certainly poorer just in terms of the one example that I gave you, of housing. Many reserves have a serious housing problem.
The Chairman: I would like to thank you very much, Mr. Bostrom, for a very interesting presentation. I know from your answers that you have a good grasp of the issues facing Aboriginal people in Manitoba, especially youth in the cities. I would like to thank you for all of the documentation that you have given us.
Mr. Bostrom: Thank you for the opportunity.
The Chairman: Our next witnesses are Elaine Cowan, Giselle Campbell and Crystal Laborero.
Ms. Elaine Cowan, President, Anokiiwin Group: Madam Chair, members of the committee, I want to thank you for the opportunity to share some of the ideas and experiences that I have had in life in this area. To begin with, it is obvious that I am not speaking from the perspective of a young person, given my grey hair. I am something less than youthful, but nonetheless, I am a member of the Peguis First Nation, I live in Winnipeg and I have worked in Manitoba my entire life in First Nation employment and human resource issues.
I am currently the President of the Anokiiwin Group, which includes the Anokiiwin Training Institute and Anokiiwin Employment Solutions, which are two privately held companies that provide training, employment and other services to the public and private sectors and individual clients of Aboriginal ancestry.
The word ``Anokiiwin'' in Ojibway means ``everybody works.'' I chose that name with great care because that was my objective. It is my dream to someday see everybody in our community gainfully employed.
As president of those companies, I have seen firsthand some of the successes and challenges that young First Nation, Metis and Inuit Canadians experience. I have also seen government initiatives at all levels, Aboriginal, federal, provincial, and even municipal governments, succeed and fail. Those experiences have led me to some observations, insights and ideas that I want to share with you here today. Certainly, I will not say anything today that you likely have not already heard. There are no revelations in these comments, but I hope that I can reinforce some of what you have heard from others.
To begin with, I am going to make a rather harsh, but extremely important observation that some may not agree with, but about which I feel very strongly. Although we are not a racist society, most Aboriginal people experience racism in their lives. Granted, things are better today than they were in the past, but racism is still a part of the lives of Aboriginal people, and any racism at all is too much. There is not enough time, and I realize this is not the proper place, to address specific instances of racism against Aboriginal people. Let me assure you that I have experienced it, my children have experienced it, and the clients that we serve experience it on an ongoing basis; and it is too much. Nothing is more devastating to a young person, no matter what their ancestry, than racism. You can design, develop and deliver the best policies, services and programs possible, but if they are implemented in a society where racism is allowed to exist, they are of limited value. In my opinion, one of the greatest achievements that this committee could accomplish is to work to reduce the amount of racism that all individuals of Aboriginal ancestry, especially young people, face. That is a substantial challenge, I know, but it is one well worth taking on.
Obviously, eradicating racism will take some time. Meanwhile, there are some specific measures that I believe can improve the socio-economic conditions of First Nation, Metis and Inuit youth. The first is to move from developing solutions for youth to developing solutions with youth. Involving young people in a meaningful and substantive way in identifying their own needs and developing relevant and effective responses to those needs is the first step to true empowerment. That includes the power to make mistakes.
One of the major barriers to innovation, especially when governments are involved, is the perception that mistakes mean failure. This is not the case in most circumstances, but it is especially not the case when working with young people. Mistakes are very much a part of learning. Mistakes are one of the ways that we grow as human beings. Mistakes do not necessarily mean failure.
Having worked at senior levels in both bureaucratic and political positions in the provincial government, I know firsthand the desire of governments to avoid mistakes. At the same time, I know that progress cannot be made without making some mistakes.
What is true for governments is also true for individuals. We all make mistakes, and we should all have the opportunity to learn from them. The message is not that we should try to make mistakes, but we should not be so afraid of making them that we do nothing, or mire ourselves in the tried and true and take no chances.
I also have a concern about the fixation, or even the obsession, that most governments have on immediate gratification.
The latest craze, bordering on craziness, among governments is that all training should lead to immediate jobs. This requirement for moving directly from training to work is now a criterion for most post-secondary training targeted to youth. Training programs for youth should be open and flexible. Young people, especially those from socio-economic environments with limited opportunities, need to explore and experiment. They should not be forced into a specific occupation or line of work just because they take a training program in that vocational area. Tying training directly to a job does not allow them the opportunity to discover what they want to do. If they take the training and do not move immediately into work, they are labelled as a failure, or at least a statistical failure, and the training program that does not lead directly to a job is considered to have failed that individual.
It is interesting that the same requirements do not apply to university level studies. Those involved in ``higher learning'' are not streamed into a job in their area of study in the same way.
No doubt, growing up is difficult. It is especially difficult when bias and prejudice limit opportunities and crush self- confidence. Young egos are fragile enough. Self-doubt is as much hormonal as it is personal for most young people. The erosion of self-esteem is accelerated when cultures have been crushed and the sense of family left scattered in the ruins of the residential school system.
Personally, I usually do not like to dwell on the past. I certainly do not think that we should excuse an individual's behaviour because of his historical circumstances. However, I think that we must understand how the past shapes the present. If we accept the developmental continuum as true, then the present will shape the future.
Therefore, when looking at ways to improve future conditions for First Nation, Metis and Inuit youth, we must examine and understand the past, analyze what is happening in the present and plan for the future.
Indigenous peoples in North America believe that leaders — decision makers — must consider seven generations when making important choices. By the way, those seven generations go both ways. We must reflect on seven previous generations to understand the lessons of the past and project our thoughts seven generations hence in order to plan for the future. Seven generations is a long time, but it does provide perspective.
Notwithstanding the actual number of generations, it is important to try to determine why those things that happened in the past have led us to the circumstances of today. I hope the members of the Senate committee and those that receive its recommendations will make that effort to understand the past that shapes the present for First Nation, Metis and Inuit youth. There is much to be learned from the elders of our nations.
There is no question that youth need positive role models to succeed. Just look at your own personal histories to see the importance of positive role models in real life. How many of you have followed in the footsteps of your own family members and friends? How many of you have chosen a particular profession, at least in part, because a parent, uncle, aunt, grandmother, grandfather or an influential friend showed you the path?
I believe that I learned a strong work ethnic and developed the confidence of an entrepreneur because of what I saw my aunt do with her own business in a Metis settlement in Wabowden, and the entrepreneurial spirit of my father.
Positive role models are important. Why do you think there are so many Mohawk workers in the high steel industry in Ontario, Quebec and New York State? Role models. Why do you think there are so few First Nation, Metis and Inuit doctors? Why do you think there are so few Aboriginal information technology workers? The lack of role models.
The last point that I have time to make, although there are many more that could be made, is the importance of strategic training. For example, there are indeed too few Aboriginal workers in information technology, as one example. Yet at the same time, the information technology sector is one of the fastest growing in Canada. Despite what you read about the flattening of the growth in technology, we all know that the technology field is here to stay and is on its way back. It is a wave that is carrying tens of thousands of Canadians into the world of productive work through high quality jobs. However, it is a wave that is out of reach for most Aboriginal workers.
In the first case, the digital divides separates Aboriginal youth, and others, from those with greater access to computers through their formative years. There are computer haves and computer have-nots, and the haves have a much greater chance of learning the skills that they need to find work in the information technology sector. They have first crack at those jobs and they work their way up the career ladder. They become the project managers, the human resource managers, the senior managers and the decision makers for the industry. When they are making hiring decisions, they look around them and they do not see many Aboriginal co-workers, so they do not think to look to the Aboriginal labour force.
The situation for the Aboriginal worker who does find work in the information technology sector is little better. When they join the information technology sector workforce, they look around them and do not see many other Aboriginal co-workers. They do not see many First Nations, Metis or Inuit managers in their workplaces. Therefore, they do not have the role models that they need to push them forward in the industry and up that career path ladder. It is a self-fulfilling cycle of exclusion.
One of the answers to this problem is to define strategic sectors where special efforts, including training, encouragement and special hiring initiatives, are required to ensure young Aboriginal workers are positioned to capture new opportunities that may otherwise lie out of their reach because of systemic barriers.
I wish there were more time to spend with the committee, but I appreciate your time constraints. If there were, I would elaborate on the comments that I have made, and I would have touched on the issue of involving First Nations more in the training of their own members in urban cities like Winnipeg, rather than substantial amounts of funding for training those members flowing to other organizations; enabling rather than restricting private sector trainers; encouraging greater industry and sector-wide education, rather than forcing trainers to rely upon community college certifications as credentials; encouraging public sector trainers and educators to be more flexible and responsive to the needs of Aboriginal learners; supporting innovative responses to the training needs of Aboriginal learners; supporting more community-based training for First Nation, Metis and Inuit communities, or learning at home; realistic and participatory career counselling for Aboriginal youth; and more entrepreneurial focus training. These are all matters that you have probably already discussed a great deal, however, I did not want to leave the impression that I did not think them important by leaving any mention of them out of this presentation.
I want to thank you again for your time, and I hope my comments have reinforced the need for government policies and programs that meet the needs of young First Nation, Metis and Inuit citizens through a balanced approach to the design, development and delivery of policies, services and programs.
Ms. Giselle Campbell, Employment Equity Advisor, Manitoba Hydro: Honourable senators, I have been asked to come here today to share information on our corporation's initiatives pertaining to Aboriginal youth. In reviewing the list of previous and current witnesses that have stood before the committee, I can see that some key individuals and organizations have collectively shared with you their challenges and successes in working with and for Aboriginal youth, in hopes of raising awareness and also making a difference. However, as a representative of Manitoba Hydro, and from an industry and business perspective, it is also important that I explain not only how, but also why these corporations are reaching out and trying to make a difference. My presentation today will highlight those reasons and the initiatives currently implemented at Manitoba Hydro.
It is important that we examine the issues affecting our youth so we can understand where there are opportunities for change. The Senate's final report will be of importance to our nation, government, educators, business, and more so to the caregivers of our youth. Although, unfortunately, it may not have been the case years ago, today the social and economic well-being of all Aboriginal peoples is a concern that has implications for our country.
In today's competitive knowledge-based economies, our labour markets demand increased skill levels and educational attainment. The conclusions of the national round table on learning state that by 2004, one in four jobs will require a university degree.
Demographic changes and Canada's aging population will also have a major implication for our workforce. The Canadian government, labour and business anticipate that the shortfall of skilled workers will continue to remain a serious concern, and they will try to find creative means to fill the gaps.
In addition, the new data from the 2001 census shows that our Aboriginal population continues to be on the rise. Within Manitoba, we have a higher concentration of Aboriginal people and a steady growth in the numbers residing in the city. This means that young Aboriginal people will account for an increasing share of entrants into the workforce.
While the educational profile of Aboriginal people also will continue to rise, particularly in the area of college diplomas and trade certificates, gaps do remain, in particular, with the university graduates. This has created a tight and competitive market to recruit local, qualified Aboriginal graduates, especially within the high-skilled occupations. This also poses a great risk in that high-skilled occupations such as science, engineering and technology have jumped by 32.9 per cent from 1991 to 2000, and are also on the rise. The danger of under-representation of Aboriginal peoples in these quantitative occupations is a great concern to us all as a society. We are missing out on the opportunity to influence decisions that have dramatic social consequences. This is an area that is often under-promoted and under- targeted. As a result, our businesses and industries whose labour forces require these occupations are in a unique and most critical position today, especially those who have significant investment in areas where Aboriginal people live, and are entering into new models of partnership with Aboriginal peoples for future business development, as is the case for Manitoba Hydro.
It is for this reason that Manitoba Hydro is committed to its corporate strategic goal to be a leader in strengthening working relationships with Aboriginal people in order to achieve an equitable representation at all levels within the corporation. However, this requires a much more proactive and creative approach on the part of Manitoba Hydro, and others, in the training of potential employees.
While there are several examples of significant advancements and programs in place to strengthen those relations, I am here to present our solution in working with Aboriginal youth, and more specifically, Aboriginal girls.
In order to create an awareness of engineering technology and trades career opportunities for youth, Manitoba Hydro implemented the first summer day-camp program called ``Building the Circle: Exploring Engineering Technology and Trades.'' The focus is designed to allow female Aboriginal youth age 13 to 15 to gain meaningful exposure to and participation in those fields. The need for future recruitment of Aboriginal women in historically non- traditional occupations requires creative initiatives. Therefore, it is our vision that the camp program will enable young Aboriginal girls to gain the self-confidence and empowerment to enter these careers, to begin the momentum of awareness and positive change. It is a four-year, four-phase program that mirrors the Aboriginal medicine wheel. This same group of 10 youth will return each year in developmental phases to foster their qualities of curiosity, problem solving, teamwork and creativity. We will continue to nurture our relationships with our youth and their families throughout the year through gatherings and activities. It is hoped that at the end of this program, our youth will choose a path that will lead them into these occupations at Manitoba Hydro, with continued educational support through our Aboriginal education funding program.
The response to date has been overwhelming, from the business, education and community groups, and most of all from our families and youth. As a result, we are currently reviewing partnerships and funding in order to sustain these programs for the future and for further development within the North and South.
Given the time limit on presentations today, it is impossible to share our program with you in its entirety, but I would like to highlight some of the key program goals and activities that have been successful in reaching Aboriginal youth. The program is offered for free, so any Aboriginal young person who chooses to participate in the program can do so. Research states that organized camp environments have a positive influence on the development of self- awareness in youth. The program was designed and facilitated by Aboriginal staff and a council of elders, with youth involvement and participation. We partnered with a host of external community partners who have an equal long-term investment and interest in the program, and also in the success of Aboriginal youth. We have the commitment from our executive management and dedicated staff. It also creates and promotes awareness of the science and technology fields, as these occupations are not career choices that Aboriginal youth pursue and in which they are at much greater risk for under-representation. It develops and fosters a growing relationship with the camp participants, along with their education pursuits and career paths. Staff participation, role modeling, mentoring and advocacy all provide the necessary social and emotional support and encouragement. It educates and assists not only youth, but also their families in the development and identification of skill competencies and education requirements. It provides tutoring for math and science and support during the transition from high school to university. The underlying ``hook'' that makes this program unique and successful is that it provides realistic employment opportunities during and upon completion of the program for our young Aboriginal girls. The summer program has been an ambitious undertaking, and it is a long-term investment with long-term value and benefits for all stakeholders.
Today's Canadian corporations are certainly in a unique and critical position. While we have not yet formally recorded the data, there has been an overwhelming response from individuals and industries throughout Canada wanting to review the camp model. This demonstrates the interest of organizations today in seeking options for tapping into the Aboriginal community, and for some this is unfamiliar territory.
Manitoba Hydro is a utilities company. This camp program is one example of the creative approaches today's employers need to use to fill their current labour and business needs. For Manitoba Hydro, the camp program is one creative approach to maximizing Aboriginal employment, which is not only critical to the success of our organization, but also demonstrates what I believe is the social responsibility we all have to encourage Aboriginal youth to reach for higher education and lifelong learning. However, it must involve the entire spectrum of Canadian society, individuals, communities, employers, labour, government and learning institutes, both Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal. It is critical that the collective whole engage together, because without one or the other, we are going to continue to see the barriers, blocks and walls.
I would like to end on a more personal note. For me, this camp program is more than a work responsibility; it is also a personal one and a commitment that I honour. Prior to my employment with Manitoba Hydro, I managed a youth drop-in centre in the inner city of Winnipeg. I worked directly with what is termed ``at risk'' Aboriginal youth and families for several years, and dedicated myself to that role for many reasons. I grew up in similar circumstances to those I witnessed many of our youth and families experience, and for the most part, I identified with their stories and their pain, challenges and successes. It is from this understanding of the lessons given to me that I am committed to making a difference for Aboriginal youth in my own way and for my own reasons. This is why I am also pleased to be a small part of today's presentations. I know that when you provide youth with opportunity and believe in them, it has a power to make a difference, this is what I hope for and this is what I bring to this room.
Ms. Crystal Laborero, Director, Aboriginal Employment Initiative, Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce: Honourable senators, I will do things a little differently from my colleagues. They talked about some of the social issues that young people are facing, and having just fallen out of that youth category, I think I can bring a different perspective.
A First Nations woman, I grew up here in the city. I am from Sapotaweyak Cree Nation. Cree was spoken in my home, and I spent most of my life here, very much like Giselle, in the inner city with inner-city youth. However, I spent a lot of time with an organization called the Royal Bank. I spent the majority of my career, 10 years, there. When I left that organization, I went into my present role as the director of the Aboriginal Employment Initiative, and I decided that that is what I wanted to speak about today. The reason being that I have the only position of this nature in the country. We are the only chamber of commerce in Canada that has a role of this type and I think it is important that people know about it.
I have some brochures here that I will send around.
I started as the director of the Aboriginal Employment Initiative in March 2000 and I report to five different groups. I report to ETS, that is, the Province of Manitoba Education and Training Services, Western Economic Diversification, Aboriginal Human Resource Development Council of Canada, the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce, where I am housed, as well as the Business Council of Manitoba, which represents 55 of the top CEOs in this province.
When the Aboriginal Employment Initiative first came to fruition, the idea was that they would hire someone to play a liaison role between the business community and the Aboriginal community, and I think they were anticipating, based on the demographics here in Manitoba and in Winnipeg, which has a very large Aboriginal population, that this was the place to start it.
I have a very extensive background in banking and human resources, so I think initially, they were hoping that I would move from company to company, go in and take a look at them, fix them up, and boom, they would hire Aboriginal people. Little did they know that it would take me six months to get an appointment with some of these CEOs. I have spent the last three years teaching. I am not a teacher by trade; I never studied that. However, I have had to spend a lot of time with many senior managers, human resource people and senior executives in organizations, teaching them why they need to include Aboriginal people in their workforce.
I come from a background where I believe that we should be pushing social responsibility. That is not what a lot of organizations want to hear. They want to hear about the bottom line. They want to know, do these people have the skills to match what I need in my workplace? I try to educate them on the business imperative attached to hiring Aboriginal people. We have a very large and very young Aboriginal population, and guess what, the mainstream workforce is retiring. There are organizations in this province in which up to 50 per cent of the senior management will be retiring within the next five years. They are in panic mode.
Therefore, they are coming to Aboriginal organizations in Manitoba and, knowing that they need to start looking at the Aboriginal community, asking, ``Where do we start?'' That is part of the role that I play. I do not duplicate the services of any of the organizations in Winnipeg, in that I do not have a database of Aboriginal applicants looking for jobs or anything like that. My role is to provide them with advice and counsel in terms of recruitment. Where do you recruit, where do you go? Do you know that there are Aboriginal liaison centres on all the post-secondary campuses in this province? They did not know that, so I hook them up with those kinds of people. We offer them services in retention initiatives. Are you aware of the initiatives that you can implement within your organization, not only to employ people, but also to keep them there?
We also look at the image of organizations. Often, organizations do not necessarily have a positive image in the Aboriginal community. For example, you often hear companies say that they are an equal opportunity employer and will hire anybody who applies, as long as they are qualified. However, for some reason, Aboriginal people are not applying. There are a number of reasons, and I do not need to go into that. We try to help them enhance their image and become a place where Aboriginal people are welcome in the workforce.
It has been an amazing three years. This was ground breaking; it is the first time that such services have been provided to the business group. It has been very interesting. Initially, many businesses were not too sure they wanted to participate in this, but now I am so busy that I have been able to hire a full time staff to help. We are starting to look at building capacity and building different relationships.
I recently entered into a partnership with the Department of Aboriginal Affairs to look at a representative workforce strategy. We do not want Aboriginal people to join an organization only at the entry level; we have skills and capabilities to work at all levels in an organization, including human resources, senior management and entry-level management. We are looking at organizations that are willing to open their doors and let us take a look at some of the jobs and the qualifications. How do we know that we do not qualify if we do not even know what kind of jobs you have? It is very important that, if we are going to educate our young people and encourage them to stay in school and acquire skills, we know what the jobs are and what types of qualifications you need for those jobs. That is part of what the representative workforce strategy will involve, going in and doing an internal review of these organizations, finding out about the required qualifications, and then relaying that information back to our Inuit, Metis and First Nations communities. How do we better prepare our people to stay in school and get the required math and sciences, depending on the programs?
In particular, one of the largest initiatives that I have been involved with over three years, through the AEI, is the Business Council of Manitoba Aboriginal Education Awards. I helped them develop a scholarship program for Aboriginal people in Manitoba. It is for Aboriginal post-secondary students in any discipline, as long as they are entering a university or college in this province. We will fund a pipefitter at a college or a medical student. We have been able to get provincial and federal commitment as well as from business, so the two levels of government will match whatever funds the businesses put in. We have been able to commit $675,000 over three years. Last year, we gave out 86 awards to Aboriginal students in this province, and the best part is that we can also offer them employment. We have 55 of the top companies participating in this, so we are able to say, ``Here is an award of $3,000 to go university, but at the same time, I am willing to consider you for summer employment.''
Being in a liaison role, we have had involvement with a lot of different role modeling programs, and internships, which are very important. That eases the transition from school to work and has been very successful in this province. We started doing this in 1995, when we had five students working in a bank to get some experience, or just to see what the office environment is like. Last year, there were 75 students working across the province in many different areas, as well as in Manitoba Hydro and other major organizations in this province.
There are some wonderful programs happening for our youth, but we need to diversify. We can be more than bankers, lawyers or teachers, and I think it is important that we express that to our youth that there are more opportunities out there.
I have been hearing from the business and the Aboriginal community, ``We do not know each other, we need access to each other. How do we meet? How do we make things happen in this province?''
That has created a mandate for me to develop forums where these people are coming together, and we have had a lot of success with job fairs in this city. There was a job fair in February — and it is not a career fair, so you do not come looking for what you are going to be when you grow up. You come with resume in hand. We had a total of 40 different employers with tables — and they had to have job descriptions, not come just to show their faces — with over 700 Aboriginal people looking for work. That tells me that Aboriginal people in this province want to work, but they are just not getting the opportunities.
When people are working they are happy, they are healthy, and it has an impact on the family, especially the youth.
The Chairman: All three presentations have been very enlightening on what Aboriginal people are doing to address the issues and challenges facing our communities and our youth.
Senator Sibbeston: I come from the Northwest Territories, where Aboriginal people are doing relatively well. I just spent the past couple of weeks travelling to the Inuvik area and Yellowknife. On Friday, I witnessed the signing of a business agreement between a First Nations group and one of the airline companies. However, it occurred to me that society needs some incentive to make substantial progress for Aboriginal people. I am beginning to believe that a lot can be done through goodwill and non-Aboriginal people wanting to help Aboriginal people. There is a positive social consciousness in the country, but I am also beginning to realize that the more effective way is if there is a financial, economic or political inducement. There is a need for some pressure, some reason, for the dominant society to do something to make it possible for Aboriginal people to be part of that society.
I am curious to know what the situation is in Manitoba. Are we depending simply on the kindness and goodwill of the non-native population, or are there some real inducements, some real pressures, coming to bear? If nothing else, as was stated, the Aboriginal population is rising, so they have no choice, in a sense, but to recognize that they need to deal with that. I would like to hear your comments on that, because I think that could give us a picture of what the future will be for Aboriginal people.
Ms. Cowan: I would like to respond to part of that question and give you some of my experiences. This is a difficult issue in Manitoba, and I think you can see some good examples of special efforts being made. In all of the years that I have been around, I am seeing more goodwill than ever before in the non-Aboriginal community, the private sector and the corporate sector to try to do something, for lack of a better phrase, about the issue. It is becoming a social responsibility for the corporate sector. In all sincerity, the private sector does want to hire people and there are many growing companies in Manitoba that need employees. Therefore, it makes good sense to hire from our community, which has the highest and densest population, particularly in the youth group.
There are incentive programs; I know there are wage subsidies for certain categories and those kinds of things. Some groups view that as somewhat negative: Why would you have to pay a wage subsidy to hire an Aboriginal person? It starts to become a bit political.
I will give you an example of something that I tried that has had tremendous success. From my limited research capacity over the years, I learned that yes, obviously, we do have a very dense, high population in this province. Secondly, we have a very high number of youth within that population. Thirdly, we have probably fewer post- secondary graduates or people who have high management-level skills. Regardless of what we would like to change, the educational level is still in the semi-skilled area. It is still in the entry-level area. One of the things that I tried, and it is not an incentive, was encouraging Aboriginal people to go out to work on a temporary, short-term basis. I did that because, as Crystal was saying, sometimes a job with a pay cheque is the best healing. For someone who is earning an income, albeit short term, it is still a job. It provides the Aboriginal person with a pay cheque quickly, it provides them with self-confidence quickly, and it provides the employer with an employee quickly. We all hope that at the end of the day, things will work out so well that the person will be hired.
I do think there is a certain commitment there, but I am not certain whether incentives for the employers would be the answer. Maybe Crystal could add to that.
Ms. Laborero: I struggle with the idea of incentives, because I often get calls from corporations assuming that if they hire an Aboriginal person, there is a price tag on the person's head and there will be some funding associated with that. I personally have a difficult time with that. If you need to hire good people, you pay them; you do not expect government to subsidize it. I know that some businesses still struggle with that. The services that I offer through the chamber are free of charge, and I think that is the only reason that I get in the door in a lot of these places. They are taxed on their own resources, and when I ask if they want to undertake an initiative like this, the first thing they say to me is, ``How much is it going to cost me, what are your fees?'' We have decided that the services of the AEI will be free, and we started off that way. Hopefully, we will become self-sustaining. I do not think that we are there yet in this province.
Senator Sibbeston: Madam Chair, I appreciate that the response has been mostly in financial terms, and maybe I should have provided a little more background. In the Northwest Territories, society has changed from what it was 20 years ago, primarily because of land claims. Aboriginal people now have land. They have financial resources. They are involved in government and politics, so now Aboriginal people in the North cannot be ignored. When companies go into the North, they have to deal with the Aboriginal people face to face, because a lot of the North is their land.
I am asking, what are the future and the current situation in Manitoba for Aboriginal people? Is something similar happening, so that they will be in a stronger position to become part of the larger Canadian society?
Ms. Laborero: Actually, that is part of the business imperative on which I try to educate employers. In this province alone, we are looking at about $175 million in land claims collectively for the First Nations, so we are now part of the economy as never before, which means if businesses want to continue to prosper, they have to consider the Aboriginal community, and not only as a purchaser of goods and services. When we consider the millions of dollars that Aboriginal people spend in this province, if we collectively decided that we would only deal with businesses where Aboriginal people worked, we would put some organizations out of business. We are trying to show the organizations that we are becoming more educated, which means we have a higher income, which means we take more part in the economy as purchasers of good and services. However, the treaty land claims also are creating wealth within our First Nations communities, which are now looking to partner with a number of different businesses. It is moving that way, but it is a slow process because we are still getting to know each other.
Senator Tkachuk: You are from the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce. Do you have a provincial chamber as well?
Ms. Laborero: There is a Manitoba Chamber of Commerce and I have ventured into doing an initiative with them. We recently did some work with the Brandon Chamber of Commerce. My office is in the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce, but I also work for the Business Council of Manitoba.
Senator Tkachuk: Have you received interest from other chambers in the country?
Ms. Laborero: Actually, yes. I am going to speak to the Alberta Chamber of Commerce in two weeks, and they are having a political action day. I will be addressing them, talking about the Aboriginal Employment Initiative.
We are also involved in the Aboriginal Human Resource Development Council of Canada, and part of what they are asking me to do is create a template of how we put the AEI together and implemented it in the province.
It is slow moving, but we are starting to receive requests. We are starting to get a lot of requests from different provinces for information on the Business Council of Manitoba scholarship awards too, because government is matching business dollars.
Senator Tkachuk: Ms. Cowan, you talked about racism earlier and you said that you had experienced it yourself. Could you perhaps, for the purpose of your testimony — and you said maybe others here have as well — tell me exactly what you mean by that, what happened?
Ms. Cowan: The one that stuck in my mind happened when I was fairly young, although there have been other circumstances, even in my working life. Because I frequently work with the private sector in my business, I sit on many boards, and I try my best, single-handedly, to bring information to the corporate sector on how important it is to understand the community, work with the community, and so on. Even at a board level, there is this underlying sort of quiet racism.
I can give you a stark example of what real racism is, and then I will talk about the quiet racism that happens even at the board structure.
I was in grade 12, and I remember walking down a back lane one day with a handsome young man and a girlfriend with me, and my heart was pumping away because I was just so thrilled that this handsome young man was walking with me. I had not quite figured out what to do about his girlfriend, but I would deal with that later on. She went in to her house to have lunch, and here I am alone with him, when he looked at me and said, ``You know, you are nothing but a dirty Indian.'' I was so taken aback, so shocked, I just remember my legs turning to rubber. ``Your mother,'' he said, ``she is a dirty Indian.'' It was so devastating, so horrible. That one incident sticks in my mind to this day. Of course, many other things happened.
This still exists today. I will give you an example from my business. Although I sit on boards, sometimes I feel like a token, because I do have a lot of business experience and have held many high-profile positions within government. However, that is all right, because if I can take advantage of it for my clients, I will.
Senator Tkachuk: Token woman or token Aboriginal?
Ms. Cowan: Both. What happens in the corporate world is, when I bid on, say, a proposal or a project, I have had CEOs say to me, ``You know what, Elaine, that is really good, and we do have to include more Aboriginals in our company, but maybe you could find yourself a partner who has been in business for a long time and who has the big name. Then we are with you and you can get 10 per cent or 15 per cent of this.'' I am flabbergasted because I have been in the business probably longer than any potential partner.
People do not realize what they are saying, but it underlies what is there. It is a concern, because to me, there is no room for racism. I deal with a lot of youth; I train a lot of youth. They are insecure, and that is the root of their lack of confidence.
Senator Johnson: I wanted to say how impressed I am by all your presentations and the work that you are doing.
I was curious to know about the chamber and whether you will take this program across the country, because it would certainly be wonderful to do that. It is something that I think we should look at, Chair, in our study in terms of recommending this kind of initiative to other parts of the country.
I noticed in the paper not long ago an article about not saying ``Indian summer'' any more; you just have to say it is warm out. It gets right down to the sensitivity level of individuals, and that is really important, because language and communication is a large part of how we are understood. Our study is trying to get to the roots of a lot of these things.
Can you tell me, before we wind up our session this morning, you are both from urban Winnipeg, grew up in urban Winnipeg; did you, Ms. Campbell?
Ms. Campbell: Both.
Senator Johnson: You did, Ms. Laborero?
Ms. Laborero: Yes.
Senator Johnson: How did you get into the banking business? Our study is about stories of young people and the role models for the future.
Ms. Laborero: I grew up in the inner city, very poor; there was alcoholism and I had a typical single-parent family structure. I was the first in my family to graduate from high school. My mom is a residential school survivor. Cree was spoken fluently in our home, but we were never taught it because, if you are going to be successful, you speak English and you speak it well. I have no idea how to speak my language, which is unfortunate, because my whole life's work so far has been in the Aboriginal community. However, my mother was adamant that we would finish high school. It was not assumed that you would go to university or to college, and that would be a bonus if you did, but you had to finish high school. I was very fortunate because I had a lot of positive role models in my life, both Aboriginal and non- Aboriginal.
Senator Johnson: Do you think the education was critical?
Ms. Laborero: Education is definitely critical. Even as an adult and single parent myself, I am going back to school and having to re-educate myself to keep on top of things. Learning is a never-ending process.
Senator Johnson: It was the same for my people, the Icelanders; education was the way we progressed after we arrived as immigrants.
Senator St. Germain: Are there facilities for learning Cree?
Ms. Laborero: Oh, definitely.
Senator St. Germain: There are?
Ms. Laborero: Yes, there are now.
Senator St. Germain: There is support there?
Ms. Laborero: Yes.
Senator Johnson: The minister just put more money into that program.
Ms. Laborero: It is not something that I have seriously thought about pursuing as of yet. I just finished a human resources certificate program at the university, so I am taking a break. I am also a single parent with two kids, so I try to balance going to school, working full time and children. However, maybe I will do that in the future.
Senator Johnson: Education is a lifelong experience. You do not stop after school or one degree.
Ms. Campbell, I think that camps are wonderful, especially the one you mentioned for young women. What was your path, and how do you think that the camps are working? Again, I think that Winnipeg and Manitoba are providing some important models for the rest of the country in terms of urban Aboriginal youth, and that is why our questions are quite specific.
Ms. Campbell: I am just trying to piece it together. I am a Metis woman with a Saulteaux and Cree/French background. My father was raised in Winnipegosis and his family comes from Camperville. My mother is a Metis woman from Ste. Rose du Lac, and her family comes from St. Francis Xavier. French and Saulteaux were spoken in our home, and like Ms. Laborero, we sporadically picked up the command words. So I can sit, eat and be quiet, and that is about it.
We lived in various places throughout the North in Canada until I was 10. We had followed my father in his work, and it was not until then that we finally settled down in more of an urban setting.
Part of why I believe in the camp program is that it was a saviour for me. I was involved in camp programs, from a very young age up to the age of 21, at various levels, and my saving grace was the Army Cadets. I also grew up with some dysfunction. Today I would have to use words like ``poverty,'' ``abuse'' and ``alcohol.'' It comes back to what was said earlier, that sometimes it just takes that one role model, and I did find that person, but she came to me at a very late time in my life, at the age of 19.
Also, I was the first of seven children to go to high school. Education was far from encouraged in our family. My father's education took him to grade 4. He was a fisherman, a trapper. I believe my mother went to about grade 9. Education was not pursued. Success was measured in terms of basic survival. It just came from a personal desire to break free, and sometimes, breaking free means breaking ties. People come along in your life to help you do that.
Senator Johnson: We have not heard any of your background, Ms. Cowan. Do you have anything to say to wrap it up?
Ms. Cowan: Actually, I came from a sweet, loving, but quite dysfunctional family. I ended up being raised in the North and in the South almost simultaneously; it just depended on who was getting along with whom and who would keep me. I was living for a while with my mother, but for the most part I was raised in the North with my auntie.
The short comment that I want to make, and Ms. Campbell just touched on it, is that I too was the first to graduate from high school, and I came from several generations of welfare dependency. When I graduated from high school, my goal was to get my education and get out of the house, and what a motivator! I wanted to get away from the drinking, the fighting and whatever else. Textbooks today do not say that one motivation to go to high school is to get out of the house, but that worked for me. I got my education and a job, but the consequence was that I was ostracized by my own family. When I came back, I had some money, I bought my mother shoes, I bought my mother whatever, and no one would talk to me. It went on for years, and it is the most painful experience. That is why it is extremely important to me to be at this hearing and able to share with you some of my personal experiences.
The Chairman: I have just one question for each of you. Have you contacted the Keewatin agency, or any of the Aboriginal agencies that are dealing with urban youth, to tell them your story and encourage them to participate in the programs that you are working on now? Ms. Laborero?
Ms. Laborero: Yes, I work with many different Aboriginal organizations and I know a number of the players in the community, because that is my role with business. They come to me first and I direct them; I am the traffic director for the organization. It is difficult being the only one doing this, but I definitely share information and make sure that people are aware of the programs.
We have a tight-knit Aboriginal community here. We all see each other on a regular basis and attend a lot of the meetings, so this information is shared quite often. To give you an example, Ms. Campbell might send something to me that I then send out to the entire network, and we often do that for each other. We do try to share the information as much as possible.
The Chairman: I have had the opportunity to look at and to participate a little in the Aboriginal centre at the old train station. I was so impressed with that initiative; it is wonderful to see Aboriginal people doing things for Aboriginal people. It is amazing. You three are doing some wonderful work in employment and training for Aboriginal youth, and this is why I was wondering if you do communicate. Communication is so important. You can have a wonderful program, but if you do not communicate with our Aboriginal youth agencies, you are not creating the benefit that you could. Ms. Campbell, are you?
Ms. Campbell: Definitely. Part of our recruitment strategy is to make sure that we communicate as widely as possible with all of our Aboriginal partners. We try to develop and nurture those relationships internally as well.
We certainly did for the camp program. We partnered with an educational institute such as the University of Manitoba, which has an ENGAP program, an engineering access program, the first of its kind, to encourage Aboriginal youth to pursue an engineering degree. That is only one example. When we brought those sorts of stakeholders to the table, we all worked on this together, and the majority of them were from Aboriginal organizations.
Ms. Cowan: As a private sector training and employment business, I have to contact just about everybody. I volunteer for certain things, and as Ms. Laborero said, we are pretty much connected by the old moccasin telegraph.
The Chairman: I would like to thank every one of the presenters from this morning. It has been most interesting. I hope that you have given your written presentations to our clerk and our researcher here so we do not miss anything.
The committee adjourned.