Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
National Finance
Issue 3 - Minutes of Proceedings
OTTAWA, Tuesday, December 11, 2007
(7)
[English]
The Standing Senate Committee on National Finance met this day at 9:29 a.m., in room 9, Victoria Buiding, the chair, the Honourable Joseph A. Day, presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Biron, Chaput, Cowan, Day, Di Nino, Eggleton, P.C., Murray, P.C., Nancy Ruth, Ringuette and Stratton (10).
Other senator present: The Honourable Senator Baker, P.C. (1).
In attendance: Tara Gray, Analyst, Parliamentary Information and Research Services, Library of Parliament.
Also in attendance: The official reporters of the Senate.
Pursuant to the order of reference adopted by the Senate on Tuesday, November 13, 2007, the committee continued its examination of the expenditures set out in the estimates for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2008. (For complete text of order of reference, see proceedings of the committee, Issue no. 1.)
WITNESSES:
Privy Council Office:
Cathy Hawara, Director, Appointments and Selection Process;
Marc O'Sullivan, Acting Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Special Projects.
Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat:
Joe Wild, Executive Director, Strategic Policy, Corporate Priorities and Planning.
The chair made a statement.
Mr. Wild and Mr. O'Sullivan made statements and answered questions.
At 11:19 a.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the chair.
ATTEST:
OTTAWA, Wednesday, December 12, 2007
(8)
[English]
The Standing Senate Committee on National Finance met this day at 2.37 p.m., in room 256-S, Centre Block, the chair, the Honourable Joseph A. Day, presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Biron, Chaput, Day, De Bané, P.C., Di Nino, Eggleton, P.C., Murray, P.C., Nancy Ruth, Ringuette and Stratton (10).
Other senators present: The Honourable Senators Carney, P.C. and Cordy (2).
In attendance: Tara Gray, Analyst, Parliamentary Information and Research Services, Library of Parliament.
Also in attendance: The official reporters of the Senate.
Pursuant to the order of reference adopted by the Senate on Thursday, December 6, 2007, the committee began its examination of Bill S-215, An Act to protect heritage lighthouses.
WITNESSES:
Senate of Canada:
The Honourable Senator Pat Carney, P.C., sponsor of the bill.
Parks Canada:
Doug Tapley, Manager, Cabinet Affairs;
Patricia E. Kell, Director, Policy and Government Relations.
Fisheries and Oceans Canada:
David Burden, Director, Divestiture;
Michael Bartlett, Legal Counsel, Legal Services Unit.
The chair made a statement.
Senator Carney, P.C. made a statement and answered questions.
It was agreed that the committee proceed to clause-by-clause consideration of Bill S-215, An Act to protect heritage lighthouses.
Mr. Tapley, Ms. Kell, Mr. Burden and Mr. Bartlett were invited to the table to answer questions during clause-by- clause consideration of Bill S-215.
It was agreed that the title stand postponed.
It was agreed that the preamble stand postponed.
It was agreed that clause 1, containing the short title, stand postponed.
The chair asked whether clause 2 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Di Nino moved:
That Bill S-215 be amended, in clause 2, by
(a) replacing lines 3 and 4, on page 2, with the following:
``this Act, and includes any related building that is included in the designation.''; and
(b) replacing lines 13 and 14, on page 2, with the following:
````related building'', in relation to a lighthouse, means any building on the''.
After debate, the Honourable Senator Murray, P.C. moved:
That the motion in amendment be amended by replacing the word ``building'' with the word ``structure'' and that point (b) be struck.
After debate, the question being put on the sub-amendment, it was adopted, on division.
Resuming debate on the motion in amendment of Senator Di Nino, as amended, that Bill S-215 be amended, in clause 2, by replacing lines 3 and 4, on page 2, with the following:
``this Act, and includes any related structure that is included in the designation.''.
The question being put on the motion in amendment, as amended, it was adopted, on division.
The committee resumed consideration of the question that clause 2, as amended, carry.
The Honourable Senator Murray, P.C. moved:
That Bill S-215 be amended, in clause 2, on page 2, by replacing lines 13 to 17 with the following:
````related structure'', in relation to a lighthouse, means
(a) any building on the site on which the lighthouse is situated that contributes to the heritage character of the lighthouse; and
(b) any structure on the site on which the lighthouse is situated, the maintenance of which is necessary in order to provide access to the site.''.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted, on division.
It was agreed that clause 2, as amended, carry, on division.
The chair asked whether clause 3 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Di Nino moved:
That Bill S-215 be amended, in clause 3, on page 2, by replacing, in the English version, line 18 with the following:
``3. The purpose of this Act is to conserve''.
The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
The committee resumed consideration of the question that clause 3, as amended, carry.
The Honourable Senator Di Nino moved:
That Bill S-215 be amended, in clause 3, on page 2, by adding after line 25 the following:
``(d) facilitating sales or transfers of heritage lighthouses in order to ensure the lighthouses' public purpose.''.
After debate, it was agreed that Bill S-215 be amended, in clause 3, on page 2, by moving the ``and'' from line 23 to line 25, and by replacing the ``.'' with a ``;'' at line 25.
The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
It was agreed that clause 3, as amended, carry.
It was agreed that clause 4 carry.
It was agreed that clause 5 carry.
The chair asked whether clause 6 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Di Nino moved:
That Bill S-215 be amended, in clause 6, on page 2, by replacing lines 35 and 36 with the following:
``(2) The designation of a lighthouse may include any related building that the''.
The Honourable Senator Murray, P.C. moved:
That the motion in amendment be amended by replacing the word ``building'' with the word ``structure''.
The question being put on the sub-amendment, it was adopted, on division.
The question being put on the motion in amendment, as amended, it was adopted, on division.
It was agreed that clause 6, as amended, carry, on division.
The chair asked whether clause 7 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Di Nino moved:
That Bill S-215 be amended, in clause 7, on page 3, by replacing line 20 with the following:
``whether any related buildings''.
The Honourable Senator Murray, P.C. moved:
That the motion in amendment be amended by replacing the word ``buildings'' with the word ``structures''.
The question being put on the sub-amendment, it was adopted, on division.
The question being put on the motion in amendment, as amended, it was adopted, on division.
The committee resumed consideration of the question that clause 7, as amended, carry.
The Honourable Senator Di Nino moved:
That Bill S-215 be amended, in clause 7, on page 3, by adding after line 22 the following:
``7.1 (1) For two years beginning with the coming into force of this Act, every Minister of the Crown in right of Canada who has the administration of lighthouses must maintain and make available to the public a list of those lighthouses that he or she considers to be surplus to the operational requirements of the portion of the federal public administration for which he or she is responsible.
(2) A surplus lighthouse may only be designated as a heritage lighthouse if a person or body submits a written commitment to buy or otherwise acquire the lighthouse and to protect its heritage character in the event that it is designated as a heritage lighthouse.''.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
It was agreed that clause 7, as amended, carry.
It was agreed that clause 8 carry.
It was agreed that clause 9 carry.
The chair asked whether clause 10 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Di Nino moved:
That Bill S-215 be amended, in clause 10, on page 3, by replacing line 44 with the following:
``lated building should be included in the''.
The Honourable Senator Murray, P.C. moved:
That the motion in amendment be amended by replacing the word ``building'' with the word ``structure''.
The question being put on the sub-amendment, it was adopted, on division.
The question being put on the motion in amendment, as amended, it was adopted, on division.
It was agreed that clause 10, as amended, carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 11 carry.
The chair asked whether clause 12 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Di Nino moved:
That Bill S-215 be amended, in clause 12, on page 4, by replacing line 19 with the following:
``nicipality or to a person or body that is acquiring the heritage lighthouse for a public purpose.''.
The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
The committee resumed consideration of the question that clause 12, as amended, carry.
The Honourable Senator Di Nino moved:
That Bill S-215 be amended in clause 12, on page 4, by replacing, in the English version, line 22 with the following:
``must provide for the protection of the heri-''.
The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
It was agreed that clause 12, as amended, carry.
The chair asked whether clause 13 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Di Nino moved:
That Bill S-215 be amended, in clause 13, on page 4, by replacing line 32 with the following:
``(2) A heritage lighthouse, or any part of it, may only be demolished if a public meeting is held on the matter in the area in which the lighthouse is situated.
(3) Subsections (1) and (2) do not apply in re-''.
The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
The committee resumed consideration of the question that clause 13, as amended, carry.
The Honourable Senator Di Nino moved:
That Bill S-215 be amended, in clause 13, on page 4, by replacing, in the English version, line 34 with the following:
``house in response to an emergency situ-''.
The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
It was agreed, that clause 13, as amended, carry.
The chair asked whether clause 14 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Di Nino moved:
That Bill S-215 be amended, in clause 14, on page 4, by replacing, in the English version, line 36 with the following:
``14. The owner of a heritage lighthouse must''.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
It was agreed, that clause 14, as amended, carry.
The chair asked whether clause 15 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Di Nino moved:
That Bill S-215 be amended, in clause 15, on page 4, by replacing lines 43 and 44 with the following:
``house and whether any related building should be included in the designation;''.
The Honourable Senator Murray, P.C. moved:
That the motion in amendment be amended by replacing the word ``building'' with the word ``structure''.
The question being put on the sub-amendment, it was adopted, on division.
The question being put on the motion in amendment, as amended, it was adopted, on division.
The committee resumed consideration of the question that clause 15, as amended, carry.
The Honourable Senator Di Nino moved:
That Bill S-215 be amended, in clause 15, on page 5, by deleting lines 10 to 17.
It was agreed that Bill S-215 be amended, in clause 15, on page 5, by moving the ``and'' from line 9 to line 5 and replacing the ``;'' with a ``.'' at line 9.
The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
The committee resumed consideration of the question that clause 15, as amended, carry.
The Honourable Senator Di Nino moved:
That Bill S-215 be amended, on page 5, by adding after line 17 the following:
``RELATED AMENDMENTS TO THE PARKS CANADA AGENCY ACT
15.1 Paragraph (a) of the definition ``heritage protection programs'' in subsection 2(1) of the Parks Canada Agency Act is replaced by the following:
(a) heritage railway stations, heritage lighthouses and federal heritage buildings;
15.2 Paragraph 4(1)(b) of the Act is replaced by the following:
(b) heritage railway stations, heritage lighthouses, federal heritage buildings, historic places in Canada, federal archaeology and Canadian heritage rivers; and''.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
It was agreed that clause 15, as amended, carry.
It was agreed that clause 16 carry.
The chair asked whether the preamble shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Di Nino moved:
That Bill S-215 be amended, in the preamble, on page 1, by adding after line 10 the following:
``AND WHEREAS communities in the areas in which lighthouses are situated have an important role in the conservation and protection of heritage lighthouses and in ensuring a public purpose for them;''.
The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
The committee resumed consideration of the question that the preamble, as amended, carry.
The Honourable Senator Di Nino moved:
That Bill S-215 be amended, in the preamble, on page 1, by replacing, in the English version, line 13 with the following:
``taken to conserve and protect our heritage''.
The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
It was agreed that the preamble, as amended, carry.
It was agreed that the title carry.
It was agreed that the Bill, as amended, carry, on division.
It was agreed that the chair report the bill, as amended, to the Senate.
At 3:43 p.m., the committee was suspended.
At 3:48 p.m., pursuant to the order of reference adopted in the Senate on Wednesday, December 12, 2007, the committee resumed to consider the subject-matter of Bill C-28, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on October 30, 2007.
APPEARING:
Ted Menzies, M.P., Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance.
WITNESSES:
Department of Finance Canada:
Frank Vermaeten, General Director, Assistant Deputy Minister`s Office, Federal-Provincial Relations and Social Policy Branch;
Derek Hermanutz, Senior Chief, Federal-Provincial Relations Division, Federal-Provincial and Social Policy Branch;
Tom McGirr, Chief, Federal-Provincial Relations Division, Federal-Provincial Relations and Social Policy Branch;
Gerard Lalonde, Director, Tax Legislation Division, Tax Policy Branch;
Brian Ernewein, General Director, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister's Office, Tax Policy Branch;
Martine Bérubé, Chief, Sectoral Policy Analysis, Agriculture and Fisheries, Economic Development and Corporate Finance;
Geoff Trueman, Chief, Sales Tax Division, Air Travelers Security Charge, Tax Policy Branch;
Kei Moray, Senior Chief, Business Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch;
Sandra Dunn, Chief, Financial Sector Stability, Financial Sector Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch;
Pierre Mercille, Chief, Sales Tax Division, GST Legislation;
Francis Bilodeau, Officer, Sectoral Policy Analysis, Economic Development and Corporate Finance.
Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada:
John Grace, Specialist, Pension Policy, Private Pension Plans Division, Regulation Sector.
Department of Justice Canada:
Richard Graw, Legal Counsel.
Human Resources and Social Development Canada:
Caroline Weber, Director General, Office of Disability Issues;
James Bandola, Policy Analyst, Operational Policy and Legislation.
The chair made a statement.
Mr. Menzies made a statement and, together with the other witnesses, answered questions.
At 5:59 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the chair.
ATTEST:
OTTAWA, Thursday, December 13, 2007
(9)
[English]
The Standing Senate Committee on National Finance met this day at 9:11 a.m., in room 2, Victoria Building, the chair, the Honourable Joseph A. Day, presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Chaput, Cowan, Day, Di Nino, Eggleton, P.C., Murray, P.C., Nancy Ruth and Ringuette (8).
In attendance: Tara Gray and Guy Beaumier, Analysts, Parliamentary Information and Research Services, Library of Parliament.
Also in attendance: The official reporters of the Senate.
Pursuant to the order of reference adopted in the Senate on Wednesday, December 12, 2007, the committee considered the subject-matter of Bill C-28, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on October 30, 2007.
WITNESSES:
As individuals (by video conference):
Wade Locke, Professor, Memorial University;
Paul Hobson, Professor, Acadia University.
Canadian Federation of Agriculture:
Bob Friesen, President.
National Anti-Poverty Organization (NAPO)
Rob Rainer, Executive Director.
The chair made a statement.
Mr. Hobson made a statement and, together with Mr. Locke, answered questions.
At 10:30 a.m., the committee suspended.
At 10:36 a.m., the committee resumed.
Mr. Friesen and Mr. Rainer each made statements and answered questions.
At 12:12 p.m., the committee suspended.
At 12:13 p.m., pursuant to rule 92(2)(f), the committee proceeded in camera to consider a draft report.
It was agreed that senators' staff be authorized to remain in the room during the in camera portion of this meeting.
It was moved:
That the draft report be adopted as the report of the committee on the subject-matter of Bill C-28, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on October 30, 2007; and
That the chair and deputy chair be empowered to approve the final version of the report with any necessary editorial, grammatical or translation changes required.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
At 12:20 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the chair.
ATTEST:
Lynn Gordon
Clerk of the Committee