THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES AND OCEANS
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Wednesday, December 2, 2020
The Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans met by videoconference this day at 9 a.m. [ET], pursuant to rule 12-13 of the Rules of the Senate, to organize the activities of the committee.
[English]
Vincent Labrosse, Clerk of the Committee: Honourable senators, as clerk of your committee, it is my duty to preside over the election of the chair. I am ready to receive a motion to that effect. Are there any nominations?
Senator Ravalia: I would like to nominate Senator Fabian Manning.
Mr. Labrosse: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Ravalia that Honourable Senator Manning do take the chair of the committee. Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Mr. Labrosse: I declare the motion carried. I invite the Honourable Senator Manning to take the chair.
Senator Fabian Manning (Chair) in the chair.
The Chair: Thank you, Mr. Labrosse and colleagues, for your confidence. I have a soft spot for the Fisheries Committee. I have been involved since I arrived in the Senate in 2009 and have had the opportunity to chair the committee for quite some time.
I look forward to working with all of you. There are some familiar faces around the table and some new ones also. My intention is always to have a productive, cooperative and cohesive committee. We have done well in the past. I look forward to working with each and every one of you in the future. Thanks again for your confidence.
Colleagues, we have approximately 30 minutes to conduct our organization meeting. I suggest that we now proceed to the election of our two deputy chairs. I am ready to receive a motion to that effect.
Are there any nominations?
Senator Busson: I nominate Senator David Richards as one of the deputy chairs.
The Chair: Do we have any other nominations?
Senator Richards: I nominate Senator Busson for the second deputy chair of this committee.
The Chair: Do we have any other nominations? Hearing none, with the power invested in me by the Queen, I close nominations, and I declare the motion is carried. Congratulations, Senator Busson and Senator Richards, on your respective positions.
Senator Busson: Thank you very much.
The Chair: Motion 3 creates the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure, known as the steering committee. It was agreed that all four parties and groups would have a representative on the steering committee.
Do I have a mover for motion 3? Senator Poirier moved:
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be composed of the chair, the deputy chairs and one other member of the committee, to be designated after the usual consultation; and
That the subcommittee be empowered to make decisions on behalf of the committee with respect to its agenda, to invite witnesses, and to schedule hearings.
Is it agreed, senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: I declare the motion carried. Thank you, senators. It is my understanding that Senator Francis will be the fourth steering member for the Progressive Senate Group, just to let you all know.
We need a motion to publish the committee’s proceedings. Do I have a mover for motion 4?
Senator Cormier: Yes.
The Chair: The Honourable Senator Cormier moved:
That the committee publish its proceedings.
Is it agreed, senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: As per rule 12-26(2), each committee must table a report on the expenses incurred during the previous session, 42-1. A copy of the draft report, prepared by the clerk, was distributed by email.
Do I have a mover for motion 5? The Honourable Senator Ataullahjan moved:
That the committee adopt the draft first report, prepared in accordance with rule 12-26(2).
Is it agreed, senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: I declare the motion carried. We now move on to a motion involving research staff. Do I have a mover for the motion?
Senator Busson: I so move.
The Chair: Senator Busson moved:
That the committee ask the Library of Parliament to assign analysts to the committee;
That the chair be authorized to seek authority from the Senate to engage the services of such counsel and technical, clerical, and other personnel as may be necessary for the purpose of the committee’s examination and consideration of such bills, subject-matters of bills, and estimates as are referred to it;
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to retain the services of such experts as may be required by the work of the committee; and
That the chair, on behalf of the committee, direct the research staff in the preparation of studies, analyses, summaries, and draft reports.
Is it agreed, senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: I declare the motion carried. I now invite our committee’s analysts to turn their video on. Welcome, Daniele.
Senators, we are fortunate to have Daniele Lafrance assigned to our committee. She has worked on the Fisheries Committee since 2018 and has served the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. Please do not hesitate to contact Daniele directly. It’s great to see you back. We are delighted to have you here.
We now need a senator to move motion 7. Senator Ravalia moved:
That, pursuant to section 7, chapter 3:05 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority to commit funds be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chairs, and the clerk of the committee;
That, pursuant to section 8, chapter 3:05 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority for certifying accounts payable by the committee be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chairs, and the clerk of the committee; and
That, notwithstanding the foregoing, in cases related to consultants and personnel services, the authority to commit funds and certify accounts be conferred jointly on the chair and deputy chairs.
Is it agreed, senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: I declare the motion carried.
Next we have motion 8. The Honourable Senator Kutcher moved:
That the committee empower the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure to designate, as required, one or more members of the committee and/or such staff as may be necessary to travel on assignment on behalf of the committee.
Is it agreed, senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you. Now we have motion 9. The Honourable Senator Ringuette moved:
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to:
(1) determine whether any member of the committee is on “official business” for the purposes of paragraph 8(3)(a) of the Senators Attendance Policy, published in the Journals of the Senate on Wednesday, June 3, 1998; and
(2) consider any member of the committee to be on “official business” if that member is: (a) attending an event or meeting related to the work of the committee; or (b) making a presentation related to the work of the committee; and
That the subcommittee report at the earliest opportunity any decisions taken with respect to the designation of members of the committee travelling on committee business.
Is it agreed, senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: I declare the motion carried.
Motion 10 is next. The Honourable Senator Christmas moved:
That, pursuant to the Senate guidelines for witness expenses, the committee may reimburse reasonable travelling and living expenses of one witness per organization upon application, but that the chair be authorized to approve expenses of a second witness from the same organization should there be exceptional circumstances.
Is it agreed, senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: I declare the motion carried.
For motion 11, the Honourable Senator Richards moved:
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be empowered to direct communications officer(s) assigned to the committee in the development of communications plans and products where appropriate and to request the services of the Senate Communications Directorate for the purposes of the promotion of their work; and
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be empowered to allow coverage by electronic media of the committee’s public proceedings with the least possible disruption of its proceedings, at its discretion.
Is it agreed, senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: I declare the motion carried.
I now invite the committee’s communications officer to turn his video on. Welcome back, Ben. Ben Silverman is the communications officer who will be supporting our committee’s communications and outreach initiatives. He has been working on Parliament Hill for five years and with Senate committees since 2018.
Ben will follow the committee’s activities closely to provide tailored communications services like communication plans for studies, design work on reports and the organization of press conferences as needed. I’ve worked with Ben before and it’s great to have him back as part of our committee. Do not hesitate to reach out to Ben if you have any committee-related communications needs.
Colleagues, we have now reached item 12 of our agenda, which is “other business.” Before we do so, I would like to remind senators that since there is no fixed schedule for committee meetings, our committee will not be meeting regularly for the time being. If members agree, the task of considering future business is typically delegated to the steering committee, which has the duty to report back to the rest of the committee members.
If you are agreeable, I would like to suggest that the four steering members meet soon to discuss future business and report back to the committee when we can.
Are there any questions or comments on this agenda item?
Senator Ringuette: This is not a request but a suggestion. When steering meets — and I say this with all due respect for Senator Christmas and Senator Richards — that perhaps we look into the fisheries issue in Nova Scotia in regard to the current dispute.
The Chair: Yes. I had that on my list also, Senator Ringuette. While the issue was in Nova Scotia, as you may know from listening to others, it’s an Atlantic Canada issue and certainly that is something we can explore as one of our main issues. Thank you for that suggestion.
Senator Cormier: We don’t know when we are going to sit as a committee, but when you do the work in steering — and I imagine you will do it — it would be great if we receive information from you even though we don’t know exactly the date when we will sit. It gives us occasion to reflect on different proposals.
The Chair: Yes. We’ll do that, Senator Cormier. It’s a great suggestion.
When we meet, if we don’t have the opportunity to meet as a full committee, we’ll present a written report of some sort to the other members of the committee.
I also want to put out that if any member of the committee has a suggestion of something we could look at in the near future or going forward, we don’t have to be confined to just studying one particular topic at a time. Feel free to forward it to any member of steering committee or offer suggestions in any way you can, similar to what Senator Ringuette just did.
There is a whole host of things we could be looking at, but we have to look at time and the fact that for the foreseeable future, our work will be done virtually. That will limit some things that we can involve ourselves in.
With that in mind, feel free to make any suggestions to members of the steering committee. And yes, Senator Cormier, we’ll make sure that everybody is aware of our discussions.
Senator Cormier: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Senator Kutcher: Mr. Chair, what is the timeline that you have for suggestions?
The Chair: Mr. Labrosse, perhaps you could help me out here. When could we arrange for a steering committee meeting?
Mr. Labrosse: If the steering members are available, we could arrange for a steering meeting in the next week or so.
The Chair: Senator Kutcher, today is Wednesday.
Senator Kutcher: All day.
The Chair: I would suggest trying to get any suggestion to us by Monday of next week. We’ll try to arrange a steering committee meeting next week. I would suggest that by Monday.
Senator Kutcher: Thank you.
Senator Ringuette: If I may — and I will let the steering committee advise what the priority is — one of the issues that I believe we should be looking into is the labour requirement in the fisheries in order to assure that we have a viable industry moving forward.
The Chair: Yes, I agree. We have an aging workforce in the fisheries. I know the average age of a person involved in the fishery in our province is 56 or 57 years of age.
Now technology is certainly eliminating some of the jobs. When I grew up in a small fishing community, we had a fish plant with 230 people working there. But technology has changed that. At the same time, we have a major problem with a shortage of fish plant workers and with deckhands on fishing vessels. Most of the young people are not necessarily gearing towards the fishery as a prosperous future. We also have major takeovers of some fish companies here in Newfoundland and Labrador, which is also an important issues. There is a whole gamut of things we can look at, but the workforce is an important aspect as well.
Senator Busson: Just as an aside, with regard to the lobster fishery and the issues we are talking about, I think because of the Indigenous rights issues attached that it affects the West Coast as well. If it hasn’t yet, it certainly may. I want to acknowledge that the West Coast should be a part of that focus when we talk about Indigenous fishing rights in this country.
The Chair: Absolutely.
Senator Christmas: I want to follow up on the lobster fishery rights issue. I guess there are a number of aspects to that whole issue, and we can go different directions in studying. The one question that remains unanswered so far is why it took the federal government 21 years and counting. Just planting an idea, I wonder if the scope of our study could try to answer that question. It baffles me why it took that long to try to resolve the issue.
If we can learn a lesson from that, about why the Supreme Court of Canada decision was delayed so long in its implementation, maybe we can help other Canadians facing similar judgments from the courts and are facing an unexpected or unreasonable delay.
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Christmas. That is certainly great advice.
As you know from the past, when we explore opportunities for study, sometimes we need to zero in on exactly what we are going to do because some of these have so many different antennas that you could be all over the place and not necessarily have a focal point. So I think, if we move ahead with looking at the dispute and the concerns that have been raised from that, we may be focussing on three or four different angles, like you suggest. There could be 100 different things we could look at in regard to what’s going on, but to do it properly, we need to focus in and find our focal point.
We’ll discuss that at steering. But, Senator Christmas, any suggestions from you, with the experience you have had in this matter, would be very welcome indeed.
Senator Poirier: Thank you, everyone, for all your comments. I have been on the Fisheries Committee almost from the get-go after I came to the Senate, so I have been here for a long time too. I want to reassure everyone, even the new people coming on, that we are a very open committee and we work well together. We do share a lot of good things and have done some great studies on that.
On the First Nation issues, I think the thing we need to focus on, when we look at the problem, is which committee can actually best address the problems we are looking at.
The Fisheries Committee we could do it, depending on the issue we want to look at. But there are other issues. If we look at it deeper, is it the Legal Committee, the Aboriginal Peoples Committee or the Fisheries Committee that should look at it? That is something that the steering committee could look at, to make sure that whatever we want to do in future studies, to make sure we are doing it in the right committee to get the results we want to get. I want to put that out there.
The Chair: We have crossed that path before, Senator Poirier, in looking at issues where it was more productive for another committee to take on a certain aspect. That is something we can also look at.
Just to follow up on the previous studies, I think we certainly need to look at previous studies we have completed and presented that have not necessarily been acted upon by the department or minister. We look at our search and rescue study as an example. We need to request the status of that within the department, what has been acted upon, what hasn’t been and so on. We can ask the question that Senator Christmas touched on: Why are we waiting so long for things to happen when we clearly identified some very serious issues in the search and rescue system in Canada?
Are there any other issues or concerns anyone has? Hearing none, I would like to say, once again, thank you for your confidence in allowing me to continue on as chair of this committee. I have said many times — to follow up on Senator Poirier’s comments — that I do not come to this committee with any perceived plans. My plan is only to work with each of you, trying to find an issue of importance in the fishery in Canada to see if we can offer some suggestions on how those issues can be addressed or, in some cases, improved upon.
I have had no issues with this committee over the years in relation to personality conflicts, political agendas or anything else. You will find that my focus is on this important industry to our country, certainly to my province of Newfoundland and Labrador, and I look forward to working with you to find solutions to some of the persisting problems we have in this wonderful industry.
With that, thank you all for joining in this morning.
(The committee adjourned.)